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edapblix t1_j1dmal3 wrote

Reply to comment by Fool_of_a_toker in To gift of not to gift, a philosopher's dilemma | Attentiveness, the kind that cuts through the indiscriminate busyness that besets modern life, is the greatest and hardest gift to give (Skye Cleary, John Kaag by IAI_Admin

Care to elaborate how it affected you?

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Fool_of_a_toker t1_j1duaoy wrote

I always have to consider the power dynamics and social implications of gift giving and receiving. When I receive a great gift, I don’t feel joy or gratefulness (well, I do, but it’s greatly overshadowed by: OH no, how am I ever going to properly reciprocate the value of this gift to the person. They’ve listened to my interests and picked something very special and meaningful, and now the burden is on me to do the same back and to do an even better job in order to keep this relationship going properly”. AKA the one-upmanship mentioned by the author of this article. Now is that a true analysis? According to Mauss, yes it is. Even if people don’t say it consciously, subconsciously there is a tally going regarding reciprocation and putting equal effort into a relationship. The gifts in his studies are even destroyed- it’s not about the goods at ALL, it is purely about the message that is being sent and it’s a sensitive political message that puts the safety of your tribe at risk. That being said, Mauss studied tribes of people interacting with others who actually often have a tenuous wider political relationship. It’s not really as applicable to personal one on one relationships. I still can’t shake it though. Intellectually, I have not been able to persuade myself that it will affect my social standing greatly to give a bad gift. Better to avoid the risk than to get it wrong and damage a relationship by forgetting that they don’t like chocolate or something. And that’s my master class on using anthropological texts to fuel your social anxiety.

Edit: it’s been a while since I read the original text so if I forgot anything or got something wrong, please let me know!

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Snufflepuffster t1_j1e1ohd wrote

often I feel gifts can be a cop out for not putting actual effort into the relationship: attentiveness, listening to your partner, actually being with them. These are the most fulfilling gifts and cannot be bought. The message attached to them is very simple too. People talk about love languages and how people choose to show their love, but I don’t really believe in that. imo people who decide to manifest love materially instead of emotionally have an avoidance problem.

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XiphosAletheria t1_j1ediqs wrote

But all love must be expressed materially, because we are not psychic. We never get to truly know how another person feels about us. We can only infer it from their actions. And "love languages" are just ways of categorizing which actions make a person feel loved. For some it is being held; For some it is being told; For some it is having things done for them; For some it is receiving gifts. The last one can be problematic if what is wanted are expensive gifts, but as a love languages the point is generally not the value of the gift but the fact of a gift being given, such that the gifts themselves might cost less than you could earn in say, the time it took to give someone a really good cuddle, or to compose a flowery poem.

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branchoflight t1_j1ftqfe wrote

Do you consider words and shared experiences material then?

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ComplementaryCarrots t1_j1h2iv1 wrote

I have a family member who is a fantastic gift giver but they almost never take responsibility for hurting others feelings or admit they were wrong... Your point about gift giving and avoidance reminded me of her. (Though of course not all gift giving is like this.)

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bwobely t1_j1e6qkd wrote

Anyone know if Mauss was cited in, Sapiens? I feel like I’ve read this somewhere

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MC_Kejml t1_j1hgt8o wrote

I don't want to be mean here, but could this just be a case of you overthinking it just a little? You don't need to appreciate every gift, just like the article says, and ignore the power dynamics altogether. If someone wants to force it on you, they always lose.

And what exactly is a "bad gift"? The other person needs to take it in good faith that you did your best no matter the outcome.

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Fool_of_a_toker t1_j1i6ysm wrote

You’re not being mean, I am aware it’s overthinking. And I found the article extremely neat and helpful so thanks to OP!

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Benjowenjo t1_j1elrhs wrote

Bruh, you are overthinking this haha

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JustAPerspective t1_j1f9ndk wrote

That seems an absurd observation in a Philosophy thread.

You lost?

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Benjowenjo t1_j1g3gsf wrote

I’m all for overthinking theories of justice, ethics, and cognition but there’s something absurd about overthinking Christmas gifts where I draw the line I guess.

Sure, the sensitive tribal political message angle is perfect for philosophy/anthropology nerds but allow me play the gadfly and acknowledge if you have lost all ability to accept a gift graciously, perhaps you are the one who have lost their way in this subreddit.

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JustAPerspective t1_j1gks3m wrote

>...where I draw the line I guess.

So, the line is the limit of your interest in the subject, right?

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Benjowenjo t1_j1h0z62 wrote

Not quite. Philosophy way back when helped one find the path to “the good life” whatever that may be.

I draw my philosophical line when that line cripples me from enjoying the small pleasures of day to day life, after all, what is the point of philosophizing if it paralyzes you!

Good philosophy is a curative not a poison to the people and surroundings you find yourself in, including during the gift-giving season as difficult to navigate as it be.

Edit: OP enjoy your gift of Reddit gold Mwuahahaha

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JustAPerspective t1_j1iylq8 wrote

To speak plainly, your lines are drawn by you, for your purposes.

They are in no way the limits of other people's interests or choices.

Might ponder that.

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