Submitted by grh55 t3_zf4qgy in philosophy
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[deleted] t1_izd2r4i wrote
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BernardJOrtcutt t1_izelqwd wrote
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MBTHVSK t1_izcpnus wrote
It´s almost like the willingness to "play hard" with other people in everyday situations and in more serious circumstances is exactly what makes human beings hard to criticize or invalidate.
There's always the energy of playing around other people's intentions, of countering their efforts, of figuring out and bending their rules, of crafting situations that feel novel and beautiful while inside of situations that feel restrictive and challenging.
When your own actions feel like magnificent maneuvers in a game, when your feelings feel like those of someone simply trying to enjoy a game, it's hard to be made felt like a malicious idiot.
Whoever feels like they have a childlike whimsy evolved to an adult form is a person quite difficult to change. It's why authoritative culture is the way it is, why people with power act the way they do, why common folk are hard to deal with.
It all feels like rather special forms of being human, special like all good moments in good games, and we are all convinced we know the difference between chessmaster and cheater, dungeon master and table flipper, and devote ourselves to making life interesting but not insufferable in our own contentious ways.
Oh so eager to see someone else bend their cards in agitation.
If games contain a mysterious spice of pleasure that can't be defined, then perhaps that very joy is exactly what we yet have put to put our fingers on! That elusive sense of comfort and purpose in our moments where we know others are apt to despise us. That is the core of what we have yet to define.
Signed, a person already using games a central point of his theory. Who believes this very thing we're talking about right now, that spirit of playfulness, is exactly what's allowed us to out-hunt all other species, and live so wonderfully shameless.
I believe understanding the joys of games is the key to understanding why other people feel their actions are fundamentally and essentially good no matter how vile we call them, and thereby the key to ending all arguments about why anybody does anything at all.
acfox13 t1_izd5gln wrote
Look into Jaak Paksap's work on affective neuroscience. PLAY is one of the core brain systems he defined in his work.
Zaptruder t1_izdearg wrote
Play... otherwise known as figuring out the boundaries, the affective actions, and required behaviours to maximize gain within that limited field of engagement.
In other words, games allow us to deconstruct a complex environment with limitless variables into one that can be easily comprehended and navigated, which would provide significant evolutionary advantages!
The trick of life is to perceiving and choosing which games to play.
VersaceEauFraiche t1_izet7ev wrote
This reminds me of Nietzsche's posit, contra Darwin, that life is not about survival and reproduction, but about a will to power. Life is about demonstrating mastery over competitors, joyous expression of power, owning space, etc.
CaseyTS t1_izdv6ne wrote
>ending all arguments about why anybody does anything at all
Had me until here. I realize this is probably hyperbole, but despite whatever difficulties arise, we absolutely must have debates about why people do big, important things at the very least. The joy of games may explain why some people are selfish in how they think about their actions (i.e. they see their actions as fundamentally good, as you say), and that is an obstacle to arguing about why people do things, but we humans have to be able to make responsible large-scale decisions on nuanced topics. Without debating how exactly to proceed on those large-scale decisions, that is utterly impossible in practice.
MBTHVSK t1_izgmaaj wrote
Wouldn't you say that being on the same page about big decisions seems impossible as of yet? After all, we all watch the same hollywood movies and celebrate similar kinds of holidays, and if you asked the average person about their morality the answers wouldn't be too different. And yet, there seems to be a disconnect between how people describe themselves and the behaviors they actually display. There seems to be a huge gap between how people identify as mature and peaceful and yet act much the opposite. And it's like every drop of criticism fails to rust away our behavior because there's some kind of beautiful spark to what we do and why we do it that can't be explained as mere hedonism or recklessness.
Perhaps "ending arguments about behavior" isn't the point. The point is to keep people from being surprised and confused by the most irritating and most stupendous actions anybody can possibly take. Doesn't it seem like we're all online to try and do that? Come up with a way to deconstruct the type of adult-minded decisions and well-contemplated actions that make our hearts squirm with resentment or possibly blissful awe? So that we can actually, really control ourselves when we feel as though control is what we already have in abundance?
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BernardJOrtcutt t1_izelxni wrote
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drunkonwelchs t1_izbrql5 wrote
Of course it does, because it’s all about having fun! As is life. Enjoy it while it’s here, have a laugh, and have some fun with your friends and family as much as you possibly can. There isn’t a feeling out there that’s better. As kids, we understand this philosophy best. Keep that feeling alive 💜
namhars t1_izcvien wrote
Wow. You must not have a mental illness bestowed upon you by your dysfunctional, abusive family that you now have to work against your entire life. Yoooooo
drunkonwelchs t1_izcx9gw wrote
I do actually, maybe not in the same way as your experience, but that’s what therapy and trauma healing are always there for. I’m so sorry to hear that your past has interfered with your ability to have fun nowadays, but surely there are still things you enjoy doing?
namhars t1_izcymno wrote
I didn’t mean for it to come across that salty. I am working with a great therapist and learning about who I am (: it’s just that I’m at the very beginning and have a long way to go. I’m also very impatient.
It is overwhelming sometimes knowing this is an arduous healing process. I’m lucky I met someone who treated me delicately enough to show me I needed the help
drunkonwelchs t1_izcz1v5 wrote
No worries, I realized that my initial comment can be read as insensitive to those who may not be having a good time with life in general. That’s great to hear and I wish you happiness on your journey in self-discovery!
namhars t1_izczb32 wrote
I don’t think your comment was insensitive. It isn’t your fault what happened to other people. I promise I had no hard feelings beyond my initial “damn, I’m jealous” thoughts which I then put into words.
I don’t regret it. It was nice to hear your thoughts. Thanks for sharing
balazs955 t1_izdfkm8 wrote
You cannot let those people to bring you down. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to complain and would just feel even worse for doing so.
FrankDrakman t1_izcwpl6 wrote
Games are metaphors for life, just as any other art form is. Just as a caricature is memorable because it emphasizes some features and minimizes others, games are memorable because they bring some elements of life into greater contrast and visibility.
The most obvious contrast is the game ends, while we hope our lives don't. By shortening the time frame, and compressing the 'life' into a few hours, each moment becomes more important. We celebrate the wins like a resurrection, and the losses like death. But that is obvious, and simplistic, and trite.
Consider time, and how it's marked and measured in different games. In soccer, the clock runs and the referee adds on extra time as he sees fit. In hockey and basketball, the clock stops on every stoppage of play. In football, sometimes the clock stops with the play, and sometimes it doesn't. In baseball, there isn't a clock at all,^1 nor is there one in cricket. Time is the only true non-renewable resource, so it's fascinating that our games treat it so differently.
Our games are also reflections of our societies. We saw the long struggle for integration in pro sports in the US, one whose victory preceded the one in wider society. We have seen big data overturn analytics in a number of sports, particularly baseball, as it is overturning many established patterns in life. And we have seen the corruption that we see in government copied in FIFA, in figure skating, and the IOC at the organizational level, and by the Houston Astros, the Aussie cricket team, and a bunch of PED-o baseball players at the club level. Our games are microcosms of our world, with diverse elements laid out in stark relief. We can learn a lot from studying our games, just as we learn by studying literature or poetry.
^1 - Well, it didn't. I believe a pitch clock was introduced in the minors last year, and it will make its way to the majors next year.
zancray t1_izc6pqt wrote
Life is just a different kind of game.
corpus-luteum t1_izcryut wrote
No! Games lock you into a limited perspective of possible solutions. They can only simulate previous successful strategies.
zhoushmoe t1_izdnty4 wrote
Not to mention the bounds of what a "winning" condition looks like.
Timorio t1_izdsk4m wrote
I couldn't agree more. Are you even living if you live a life of no games?
corpus-luteum t1_ize0p8s wrote
Sorry. I missed some punctuation and appear to have misled you.
I do agree with you however. My response was a bit knee jerk, on reflection. Understanding games is not the same as blindly playing them.
I have always enjoyed simulation games and my comment refers to them specifically, but on reflection I do feel that understanding the games, involves understanding their limitations.
There is no game that can simulate the infinite creativity within the universe. If it could, all would have already been revealed. And surely we'd all be emjoying the good life, right now.
But what is this "good life" that you want to live? Is it morally good? spiritually? financially? I'd say living the good life is being free to express yourself, creatively. Simulation games do not facilitate this, but you wouldn't know it unless you were creative enough to test it's limitations.
In conclusion, I would ask "Is it not necessary to be already living the good life, in order to understand games?
SubjectsNotObjects t1_izemk54 wrote
That is the question...what would a life look like that rejected all games?
boisterile t1_izdka50 wrote
Is that true?
iiioiia t1_izs8n41 wrote
New solutions to old games can be discovered, and also new games can be invented.
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ashleyriddell61 t1_izdtd8u wrote
Nuk_Nak t1_izdueu8 wrote
> "the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
What is the obstacle to overcome in Minecraft Creative Mode?
Fingerspitzenqefuhl t1_izexm6y wrote
Perhaps an obstacle, according to the definition, can be to materialize something or create something as a challange to oneself? Sure, a log is a physical obstacle, but it is only a obstacle if you make it a goal to jump over it ”i want to jump over the log, it is not necessary, can i do it?”. In the same way one could ask ”i want to create a castle in Minecraft, it is not necessary, can I do it”? Jumping and building are both performances. This is just a guess though.
[deleted] t1_ize0nd8 wrote
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Masapan1 t1_izec4xw wrote
Makes me think of the glass bead game. Hesse turned all human inquiry and thought into abstract enough terms one could spend their whole life fucking around with the game and feel accomplishment. Plus the ritual of it - maybe ritual is also important? Community, gathering, etc? Idfk
timbgray t1_izejaz6 wrote
Excellent point. Mark Solms, author of Hidden Spring, makes a similar claim for play, particularly in the formative years.
ph30nix01 t1_izew0e6 wrote
It's simple, games are becoming simulations of reality, creating a simulation of reality accurately requires you to start to understand the reasons and functions of things.
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[deleted] t1_izchhm6 wrote
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finalmattasy t1_izcluz8 wrote
The idea of relationship under a concept of rules begs for a rulebook. Rulebook: If something makes sense, you can wonder about it. Everything is everything.
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