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ajt9000 t1_izdf0ty wrote

Reply to comment by Gmroo in The hard problem of metaphysics: figuring out if other phenomena exist in our universe that like consciousness require we bear a specific metaphysical relation to them - i.e. you can't know of consciousness without being conscious. by Gmroo

I agreeof course, but does the subjectivity really have anything to do with consciousness? You could taste something and have a totally different experience than i would because your taste buds are different.

Likewise, a non conscious agent like a software bot or simple organism can have a different subjective experience than an identical agent because of similar environmental differences.

If i just ate a giant meal and you didnt, and we both experience a day without food, then my subjective experience would be very different than yours for example. Regardless of whether we are conscious or not.

I dont think consciousness = subjective experience. I think consciousness is a thought process that happens in our brains, and subjective experience is a very abstract concept that can be influenced by many, many things but exists independently of consciousness.

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Gmroo OP t1_izevj4r wrote

Already in your first paragraph you make a strsnge point. Varistions in sensations don't somehow support subjectigity doesn't have anything to do with consciousness. The same goes for a lot of other examples.

Weirdly, you mention outliers when there is worldeide consensus on a massive majority of experiences...i.e. sugsr being sweet... mint tasting "cold"... variation in subjectivity doesnt detach it from consciousness.

Finally.. phenomenal consciousness or subjective experience is simply a huge part of what consciousnes is. I don't even know how to begin understanding what you are trying to argue by mentioning variations in experience to then ask whether it has anything to do with with conscious experience.

Write your own posts arguing that and get feedback. But in all the literature this is one of the main conundrums Koch et all with integrated information theory tried to quantify it to mention an example. Unity, awareness and experience.

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