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ConsciousLiterature t1_iz3fwjv wrote

Reply to comment by Gmroo in The hard problem of metaphysics: figuring out if other phenomena exist in our universe that like consciousness require we bear a specific metaphysical relation to them - i.e. you can't know of consciousness without being conscious. by Gmroo

>Neural activity doesn't inform the observer that it feels like anything at all.

Why not? They know you feel pain because you are screaming right?

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1uana t1_iz5ptfi wrote

Or think about it like the Emma’s room thingy (?) Where a scientist (that only sees/knows black and white) knows everything there can be known about the color red, but has never seen it. Does she lack something?

OP would say she lacks the experience of red, what would you say?

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ConsciousLiterature t1_iz67cjo wrote

> Does she lack something?

Does she lack everything?

>OP would say she lacks the experience of red, what would you say?

I don't dispute this. The question is can she detect or understand the experience of red in any way.

as I said before a deaf person can understand that another person can hear and can detect when another person hears.

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Gmroo OP t1_iz3i0b2 wrote

An observer who doesn't know pain or subjective experience can just note you are making a lot of noise. You can tell them you're in pain - how could they ever understand what thst is?

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ConsciousLiterature t1_iz3jw2f wrote

>An observer who doesn't know pain or subjective experience can just note you are making a lot of noise.

In response to particular stimuli. Also other physiological reactions.

>You can tell them you're in pain - how could they ever understand what thst is?

Same way that you do. Your perception of pain is merely electrochemical reactions happening inside of your body. That being could measure these and conclude you are in pain.

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SgathTriallair t1_iz44foa wrote

A thermometer "knows" something is warm without needing to have consciousness to perceive temperature.

A computer that could read the pain signals in your brain would "know" you were in pain without needing consciousness.

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iiioiia t1_iz6122b wrote

> how could they ever understand what that is

Try thinking of "understand" not as a True/False binary but as a multi-dimensional spectrum.

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