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Iaskquesti0ns OP t1_iydlcqb wrote

Sure, I'll add some context too!

Some of my counseling clients have been very self-aware of their feelings and what works for them. They understand what they are supposed to do to feel better. But they find life is meaningless and don't see any purpose to their behaviors.

When they are in counseling, they focus on "why did this happen," and need answers. Unfortunately, in many situations in life, like a death of a friend, abuse, a series of unfortunate events, etc., we have little control. When people realize this, they bargain and negotiate - "I could've done this to prevent it" - they go into a negative thought pattern of guilt or intrusive thoughts about "what if" scenarios.

At this point, everything comes to their philosophical point of view - did they have control over the events? Did life give them this trauma for things they have done? Did they deserve it?

They try to make sense of the events and keep asking themselves questions about why the trauma happened. Some people adopt a deterministic point of view - what happened couldn't have been prevented. Some adopt a free-will point of view - they made mistakes, and now they have to learn not to make them again.

Those points of view determine how guilty they feel, how desperate they are to change their lives, and how they can move on.

  • Those troubled by thoughts of re-writing their past benefit from accepting a deterministic point of view because then they accept they have little control.
  • Those who are troubled because they don't do anything and just let things happen benefit from taking a free-will point of view, so they try to learn from their mistakes and focus on taking action to improve their life.

In both cases, the change in perspective gives them meaning; it gives them a reason to change what they are doing. They understand there are more forces at play than they can manage. They learn that, sometimes, they can make decisions all they want, but they won't matter, but they can't know this beforehand.
Changing their deterministic pov to a free-will pov (and vice versa) gives them answers depending on how willing they are to accept fate or exert control:

  1. "I can seek meaning in my future actions and how I spend my time instead of past explanations since I had no role in what happened" or
  2. "I can understand my mistakes and what I could've done better, so now I will focus on learning that instead."

Now, they find meaning in living in the moment, going on a learning journey, or spending quality time and embracing the good things when they happen. And when they have bad times, they focus on how strong they have become to not collapse during a crisis.

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Vladimir_Putting t1_iydh7hh wrote

Depression often involves your brain/mind telling itself false stories about bad things happening to you. Often focusing on it being because you're a shitty person and it's your fault and you don't deserve good things, etc. That point of view is inherently toxic to a healthy mind, and it can be more powerful if someone truly believes that everything happening to them is out of their control. Because then, how could they ever change it?

Once people get a wider, wiser perspective on those events they can see that the stories playing in their head are generally false, which clears up a lot of their depressive thoughts.

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MasturbatingGrandma t1_iydm99h wrote

No, sorry, they’re not false stories. As a recently depressed person I had real stories of personal mistakes and shit happening to me that was a lot at once. I could list them to anyone and they would say, ok, I would be depressed too. All real events.

Then I got a health scare diagnosis that literally said my days on earth were very possibly numbered and short. Overnight my depression went away. From knowing I was dying? On top of all else?

Yes. It shifted, instantly to me focusing on all that’s awesome in my everyday. I forgot all about the little annoyances and past/future concerns. Everything became deep and rich around me. I learned how to love deeply, those in my life because I wanted to milk each moment before I went into the black.

Perspective. The loss and shit of my past was real, but I no longer wasted time thinking about it. I live in the NOW, and ride every tiny beauty inside it. I thrive on what matters in the end now and ignore the rest as there is no time to waste. Depression is a waste of time. Anxiety is a laughable waste of my minutes. Being calm and happy is easy now.

If I escape this somehow, it will be the best thing that ever happened to me.

Depression isn’t about believing lies. It’s about self pity and a wasteful perspective.

When you truly life well, you milk the best around you. Most of the elderly get this, as they feel their mortality deeper.

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Vladimir_Putting t1_iydn2mi wrote

I've dealt with serious and suicidal depression a couple of times in my life. States of depression absolutely are often brought on by pervasive self "false narratives". And one of the primary ways to treat depression is to gain the mental toolkit to analyze, reassess, and even rewrite those false narratives.

That's the whole underlying premise behind CBT. But don't take my word for it:

https://oxfordre.com/psychology/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190236557.001.0001/acrefore-9780190236557-e-837

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MasturbatingGrandma t1_iydpn1h wrote

I don’t like the word false. They’re not false realities, just overly-focused-on ones.

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Vladimir_Putting t1_iydqwd9 wrote

The word "false" is entirely accurate.

From the link: >Examples of these include beliefs such as, “If I fail at something it means I’m a complete failure” or “If I don’t have someone to love and accept me it means I’m unlovable.”

These are patently false in a way that any Logic 101 student could unpack. Yet, these exact types of narratives are pervasive in clinical depression.

CBT is all about identifying and attacking those false negative narratives.

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