Submitted by BernardJOrtcutt t3_ycc1f1 in philosophy
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itq5qwg wrote
Reply to comment by SovArya in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | October 24, 2022 by BernardJOrtcutt
That means that we should not do what we like, therefore going against our free will. Real example: this year i entered High school because i love to study the subjects there (in my country there are different types of High school). But since I should follow my free will, then i should change school and live a sad life with nothing i like. Ok, i realized that the reality Is that the concept of "free will is not real" is an illusion and that free will is real, but since we are really deep in it we can't see it anymore basically. We just discovered that free will is real and the lack of free will is an illusion. We humans are so limited to the point of denying ourselves.
SovArya t1_itq6aun wrote
Not wrong. But I think we can have this thought experiment also.
If the thought is something positive, defined as what is good for you, you can let it be. Sure it may not be free will but we don't have to suffer by default.
But if the thought is bad, killing someone with no reason or basis, instead of doing it, we can hold ourself accountable and not do it.
This of course means the idea of good or bad is based on our own personal ideal or nature.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itq6wyz wrote
After all this discussion, i want to admit that in reality i am a catholic christian, and i think that God wants us to make this questions in order to make our faith stronger. I don't know what religion or system of belief do you practice, but i respect your opinion too and please, don't pretend to be smart by calling me an idiot who blindly believes, because i go against blindly believing.
SovArya t1_itq87oj wrote
I don't mind. I think religion is not wrong if it teaches us to be accountable.
I see nothing wrong with believing in a God also based on the above.
It also aligns with the idea of free will.
Think of it this way, if you do something and it is good according to your observations, and if you don't stop it; then who ever controls you; is doing good thru you.
And if doing bad, you stop that, then you exercise free will.
Of course this will depend on your perception.
As for the idea of creation, I honestly don't know, but there must be a source. And I'd like to think, I think I've been influenced by reflexivity that, God is that which nothing is greater.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itq8zv1 wrote
I don't think that knowing the future denies the will of humans. I think that God knows the future, but doesn't want to manipulate people and so he allows humans to be free. Even though he knows what Is going to happen, he writes human characters to be free. So, if God wrote a book in which humans are included, he would have wrote, in simple terms: "And so this day X person was born. Leaves empty space in which X can write"
SovArya t1_itqa6wc wrote
Some interpret God to be like man. I think this to be wrong.
If God is that which nothing is greater then; such being I can't understand. I can only appreciate what I see and feel and express the free will.
Also believing in that definition; I fear such a being. Simply because said being can do what It will; and I have no say.
A simple example would be, if I am to dumb it down to something I can understand. If an author writes a story, does the written characters have a say?
As for the Bible or holy texts, whether they are factual, I honestly love them for the idea of accountability.
Because of my belief that nothing is 100% certain or knowable; I can't say its not written by people influenced by such a power.
The idea of hope - to be saved; the nearest thing I hold unto this is a saying by Marcus Aurelius and that is - this too shall pass.
If I am to liken myself to characters in the Bible, I honestly feel that - we should be in awe, frightened if such a being exists, and exercise that free will and enjoy the time we are here.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqagng wrote
I think that the idea of God living on the clouds can be used in art and it's also a cool artistical concept, but that we shouldnt believe that Heaven Is like that: the idea of gods living in the sky comes from the olympian greek mythology, if i am not wrong.
SovArya t1_itqb1v4 wrote
You're not wrong. There has been similarities in the stories. It's like there is a template and has been spread and based on the current readers; they make it their own.
As we are able to think critically, comes progress. Exercise of imagination and the like. And the base format of that is in the stories.
Familiar with the heroes journey?
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqb7xe wrote
No, what Is "the hero's journey"?
SovArya t1_itqbg0i wrote
It's the common template of most stories.
Hero is at his place of origin. Evil comes and hardship happens. Hero has to leave home and overcome trials. From those trial, he applies what he learns to beat the evil; when evil is broken, he then can return home a changed man/woman.
Most stories are like that. Imagine star wars 4-6. Or lord of the rings 1-3. Pendragon. King Arthur. Most myths in one way have this formula.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqbw5k wrote
This story creates a cool concept: we can't pretend to be good if we have never fought evil. And i also dislike the concept that being a good person means NOT doing bad, rather than doing good.
SovArya t1_itqcdmw wrote
Yes, not doing bad is the way. Not doing is the exercise. As we did the thought experiment. It is not easy. It's hard. Haha
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqcnsj wrote
We realized that the lack of free will is an illusion the mind of the soul creates to explain the limited brain in the limited body.
SovArya t1_itqdj98 wrote
My guess is we simply didn't have the capacity to disprove it before. Now we have experiments capable of checking the chemicals in the brain.
The chemicals makes us do stuff. And stopping that is not automatic.
So the process will be don't move, think before you do. Think before you do.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqe1r1 wrote
We should accept that we don't have full control on our brain. Maybe God created us this way because It was needed to. Maybe the human mind is just very weak and has difficulty controlling the brain and istincts like anxiety or mosquito hate, but very strong compared to the animal mind (the animal soul probably isn't real).
SovArya t1_itqegbq wrote
I think you're not wrong. I also think we can't really function if somethings are not automatic. That's why it's really hard to make a synthetic lifeform.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqbi31 wrote
Animals don't have the idea of good and bad, they act like if someone was forcing them to do that stuff.
SovArya t1_itqc3l6 wrote
They act based on instinct/patterns. As we do too. Except upon exercising the don't.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqcg20 wrote
Maybe going against istinct is an example of free will?
SovArya t1_itqcwnk wrote
Yes, you will have to stop your nature if you truly want to.
Like I have this instinct to slap mosquitos because I once had dengue. So I consider them the enemy. But if at one time I choose not to slap them, that's pretty much against my instincts.
MaxTheAlmighty t1_itqd29q wrote
Yeah, i dislike this istinct of mindlessly killing mosquitoes. When i want to slap a mosquito, i try to do It using reason.
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