Submitted by Ma3Ke4Li3 t3_y5iu41 in philosophy
Reply to comment by ValyrianJedi in Philip Kitcher argues that morality is a social technology designed to solve problems emerging from the fragility of human altruism. Morality can be evaluated objectively, but without assuming moral truths. The view makes sense against a Darwinian view of life, but it is not social Darwinism. by Ma3Ke4Li3
I’m totally confused at what is your argument here, not even trying to be rude. My original point was that you cannot secure freedom by appealing to the moral sense of your oppressors. To which I used the example of American slavery. My evidence is slaves revolted, rebelled and committed suicide for centuries before there was ever and inkling of a changing “moral compass”. Slaves routinely escaped only to be branded with “drapetomania”. They cried screamed and pleaded for release for centuries to no avail
The ruling class only thought it was important to free them when the security of the union of the democracy was also on the line. Otherwise nothing would’ve happened. Slavery existed in America for 400 years before anyone in government thought “freeing slaves is too important to let it continue we should free them right now and not a moment later”
My point is that the abolitionist movement, which did a whole lot more to change the law than slave revolts did, was literally lead by and made up of slaves and ex slaves appealing to the moral sense of their oppressors...
And, again, the ruling class very obviously though that it was important to free them before the security of the union was on the line. Because them freeing them was literally the very reason that the security of the union was on the line... And I don't have the first clue what slavery existing for 400 years is supposed to have to do with anything, since the entire point is things changing...
It's genuinely kind of blowing my mind how backwards your logic is on all this.
I feel like you are saying exactly what I am saying and then telling me I’m saying it wrong. I’m a bit baffled as to how I’m somehow bastardizing history.
My original point was that the oppressed cannot alleviate the yoke of their bondage by appealing to the morals of their oppressors. Which is completely true, no slave or indigenous person ever “convinced” a slave owner of the wrong of slavery or indigenous land theft that I can guarantee. Slaves themselves had to fight for it themselves and when the truth of this fact threatened to upend the union, a war happened. Were there sympathetic northerners like abolitionists and sympathizers to the plight of black peoples? Absolutely. But freed and escaped slaves like Fredrick Douglas had to speak truth to power and ONLY when the security of the union was in danger did the president free the slaves. Period. At no point before that did any legislation pass to free slaves because…
The oppressed (slaves) cannot appeal to the moral virtues their oppressors (United States government in general and the confederacy in particular) to free themselves
They had to fight, plead and advocate for themselves
Even AFTER empancipation there was STILL sharecropping, vagrancy laws, sundown towns, lynchings, redlining, segregation, Jim Crow laws, anti-miscegenation etc etc.
Which spawned the civil rights movement to improve the living conditions of African Americans in the centuries after emancipation, and who lead the civil rights movement? African Americans
Emancipation was not a “gift”, slaves fought and died for it for themselves.
Freedom is not a gift of patience, but the reward of determination and sacrifice, it must be taken.
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