Ma3Ke4Li3 OP t1_irvned8 wrote on October 11, 2022 at 11:53 AM

Reply to comment by TMax01 in Patricia Churchland argues that morality is rooted in our Darwinian biology. She links morality to warm-bloodedness, which required an adaptation to care for others (originally, infants). This is the biological basis for unselfish concern, and later, moral intuitions. by Ma3Ke4Li3

Yes, I think it would be wrong to say that mammals are moral, period. The point is rather, I think, that something we might call "morality" is more likely to emerge in mammals or birds, rather than lizards, at this is because our neurobiology allows us (does not necessitate us) to feel deep care for others. Might be factually false (think of crocodile parenting), but the logic is a bit more nuanced.

TMax01 t1_irwq8ro wrote on October 11, 2022 at 4:43 PM

There are plenty of reptiles and even insects that engage in nurturing of young, though admittedly it isn't common. The problem is that no, the "logic" isn't nuanced at all, since it doesn't start out explaining why crocodiles don't appear to act morally apart from their parenting but we do, or why lions kill the young of rivals but we don't. Morality didn't "emerge" any more than it "evolved". It just is, like physics itself, and like physics it requires a conscious mind to notice it, but it is there whether it gets noticed or not. A crocodile does not act morally nor a lion act immorally because they do not (despite much confusion on this matter) experience consciousness, they do not make decisions using self-determination, and they are not moral agents. (These three are all identical things, btw.) Only moral agents can act morally or immorally; non-conscious creatures simply exist, without moral repercussions.

I was surprised the references in the original article didn't mention Richard Dawkins. The "logic" of 'endothermic morality' presented is pretty much the same in effect (and affect) as the hypothesis of adaptive altruism he developed in The Selfish Gene back in the 1970s.

>our neurobiology allows us (does not necessitate us) to feel deep care for others.

Actually, I think you have it backwards (whether in terms of fact or the theory being presented): our neurobiology necessitates that we feel deep care for others (because we must nurture our young), and this 'allows but does not require us' to apply (or 'misapply', in evolutionary terms) this compassion to a broader target than our offspring.

Any biological explanation for morality is a blind alley and a dead end, since morality is not a biological imperative, it is a conscious observation. Even someone who believes firmly that they know what their own personal morality demands they do is free to act immorally. Or vice versa; a conscious creature is capable of recognizing what is moral even when it doesn't describe their personal actions. It seem self-evident to me that this is the very nature of morality, as it is the nature of consciousness as well: not to determine what we do, but to determine why we might want to do otherwise.

Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.