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fineburgundy t1_iru1azf wrote

Reply to comment by TMax01 in Quantum philosophy: 4 ways physics will challenge your reality by ADefiniteDescription

I was hoping to show you how implausible it would be for a curious amateur to understand physics better than the experts. Obviously I don’t. Neither do you. So you should probably stop saying that physicists are wrong about the weirdness, really QM works just like regular mechanics if only people would listen to you.

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TMax01 t1_irw753z wrote

>I was hoping to show you how implausible it would be for a curious amateur to understand physics better than the experts.

This discussion has never been about understanding physics, it is about understanding philosophy. I understand physics just fine, despite your uncertainty on that point.

>So you should probably stop saying that physicists are wrong about the weirdness

So long as they "shut up and calculate", I have nothing to say. When they begin philosophizing about the implications of their calculations, I will address any mistakes I believe they have made. Likewise, I am not a certified expert on philosophy, but when philosophers make errors on scientific matters, it is still possible for me to notice that.

>really QM works just like regular mechanics if only people would listen to you.

Your interpretation of my position is inaccurate. Metaphysical uncertainty in QM works just like metaphysical uncertainty in regular mechanics, despite your contention to the contrary. It is just that QM forces some people, who believe (incorrectly) that metaphysical uncertainty can be ignored, to confront the fact that they are mistaken.

Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.

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fineburgundy t1_is9bxd9 wrote

Again, then: you would be advised to approach subjects where you are not an expert with curiosity and a smidge of humility when you think they are doing something wrong. Your reflex should be to assume that you are missing something, not that they are.

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TMax01 t1_isan22w wrote

I have. But humility does not require undo reverence for the less humble, and the possibility remains that you are making a mistake rather than that I am.

Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.

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fineburgundy t1_isdezkk wrote

Not humility with respect to me.

With respect to professional physicists (and philosophers).

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TMax01 t1_isdg5wr wrote

https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/xyumwc/quantum_philosophy_4_ways_physics_will_challenge/isan22w

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fineburgundy t1_isgqm3t wrote

Where you also made it about me.

But I have given the advice, taking it is up to you.

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TMax01 t1_ish7nrx wrote

That wasn't advice, it was an admonishment, and it was out of place. My advice is you learn how to avoid such situations, and I've offered you good advice for how to do that, which you keep ignoring and yet trying to make it seem like a bad thing I offered it.

Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.

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fineburgundy t1_islsjyb wrote

It’s advice: if you wish to be engaged, you can’t say “I’m not a physicist but I figured out what they all get wrong about this whole ‘QM is weird’ thing. It’s really quite simple…”

Nobody will take that claim seriously, or at least nobody who knows enough to carry on a conversation about any of this.

Anyway, you get my point or you don’t. I’ll leave the poor equine corpse alone.

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TMax01 t1_ism14ss wrote

You still don't get it: this is not a discussion about quantum physics, and nothing I have said either denies that QM is weird or contradicts the scientific findings in quantum physics.

Metaphysical uncertainty is still just metaphysical uncertainty, you're just used to being able to dismiss it in classic physics. People love to go on and on about how the human brain is incapable of comprehending "reality" and metaphysical uncertainty is just a psychological limitation of our minds, and then the mathematical undeniability of wave/particle duality or Heisenberg Uncertainty or spooky action at a distance comes along to make it clear that metaphysical uncertainty can't be ignored as easily as you'd like. Scientificism has made you arrogant, and now you're being humbled by science itself, and because you don't like that or the emotional uncertainty of real life, you're transferring your cognitive dissonance onto me.

Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.

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