DrPlatypus1 t1_jdvdw98 wrote
Reply to comment by Nickesponja in A Proof of Free Will by philosopher Michael Huemer (University of Colorado, Boulder) by thenousman
If the above argument is correct, then determinism either entails that all of our beliefs are true, or that we shouldn't try to believe what is true. I assume most determinists would deny that we should try to believe what is true, given those options. But if they do that, then they undermine the entire basis of rational discussion and argumentation. So, they have no basis for saying anyone should believe determinism, or, indeed, accept any arguments for anything.
Rationality is about making choices for good reasons. Determinism is incompatible with making choices for reasons at all. The argument is pointing out that this doesn't just negate the legitimacy of moral judgment, or even prudential judgment, but of epistemic judgment as well. Determinism entails that all human beliefs are arational. This entails that all enterprises seeking to judge or affect people's beliefs are as well.
Determinism is incompatible with everything we know about ourselves as rational and moral beings. It's a wildly implausible view. There are also absolutely no good arguments for it. The fact that modern support for naturalism gets people to believe it anyway is comparably as embarrassing to the fact that followers of Parmenides got talked into believing that people can't move. Crappy methods lead to crazy results the followers of them are blind to.
We can walk. We can choose whether to walk or run. We can be irrational and immoral in our choice to walk to a drowning child instead of run. We can be irrational in any choice to believe in whatever crappy view forces us to deny any of these things. Determinism forces us to deny obvious facts about human nature, and it renders rational discussion and judgment impossible. It's a really stupid view. People who choose not to recognize this are wilfully blind to the obvious entailments of their view. It's important not to let that blindness spread to others.
Nickesponja t1_jdvfd6y wrote
No, the premise of the argument isn't "we should try to believe what's true", it's "we should only believe what's true". A determinist can maintain the former while rejecting the latter. In fact, I don't see why anyone would accept the latter. There are situations where it's impossible to believe only the truth (say, if you're being tricked or lied to in a convincing manner), so saying we have a moral obligation to believe only the truth is absurd (at least, if you accept that ought implies can).
But of course, more generally, a determinist won't accept that ought implies can if by "can" you mean that we have free will to do one thing or the other. But again, that's just obvious.
Kangewalter t1_je7ecgi wrote
Why would you think Huemer interprets P1 in that way when he explicitly has the ought implies can principle as P2? Obviously, if you can't believe the truth about something (because you don't have access to information, for example), you can't be obliged to believe it. In the comments, Huemer is explicit that P1 is meant in the sense of "if P is false, then you should refrain from believing it."
Nickesponja t1_je94cjb wrote
> if P is false, then you should refrain from believing it
But this is just false if ought implies can, because there are plenty of situations where you can't help but believe falsehoods (say, when you're being convincingly tricked).
[deleted] t1_je95mcp wrote
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