Comments
[deleted] t1_jbs86a7 wrote
[deleted]
IReallyHateReddit37 t1_jbqpxj3 wrote
If I have to live the same life again forever I’m going to be annoyed
TheRecognized t1_jbs87rl wrote
^That’s ^kinda ^his ^point
PralineWorried4830 t1_jc0gtnd wrote
Would check out Julian Barbour's The End of Time. Technically we're re-living every moment like a broken record if the universe is intrinsically timeless.
AstronomerStandard t1_jbrehjt wrote
If my life was reset I’d certainly make better decisions. That’s enough for me to know that I have grown through my mistakes. And then I’d probably make more mistakes through the new choices that I would make.
We need to make choices to grow, if we wait for life to make a choice for us, it would be also letting our environment decide who we will be.
Ubermensch….
NVincarnate t1_jbrhnuv wrote
The point of the exercise is you don't change anything every time. It's the same life for infinity.
AstronomerStandard t1_jbrnyw6 wrote
I know, I deviated on purpose. Just wanted to state what I discovered while performing this thought experiment.
Btw m, Reliving the same life for eternity is a torture no matter how pleasurable ur life was. If u’re to relive a luxurious life then I’ll find it only “less painful”. Part of the joy in life is its spontaneity
Biguiats t1_jbq1uj7 wrote
I suspect many people would feel more content with their lot after engaging in this thought experiment. All the things we worry may happen disappear and make the mundane seem more special.
Tealtime t1_jbron3e wrote
That's, I think, and intuition i had about it but hadn't consciously thought about thus far. Indeed, in a way it forces you even to really sniff that rose on your way to work and appreciate even just sitting there with nothing to do a bit more if you apply it the right way - it tells you that's all you'll ever get; better make it worth something.
[deleted] t1_jbrrimr wrote
[deleted]
PuttinOnTheTitzz t1_jbnrlue wrote
So, I've been familiar with that quite for decades but hadn't come across it in some time.
Is he suggesting then all of existence expands out in change and then collapses in on itself and starts over? Even the universe? Cause if I were reborn, the world I was born into would be different and impossible to redo.
toblotron t1_jbo2s92 wrote
No, he means that in order for you to know that you are doing the best you can with your life, you can pretend that you will live the same life over and over again for eternity. If you would accept the eternal return, you know your are doing the best with your life; living it as well as you can
If not, you should question how you live, and try harder to live a life worth living
This is a thought-experiment
CleganeForHighSepton t1_jbpokwc wrote
The thought experiment / existential question of the eternal return holds regardless, but as an aside, Nietzsche was influenced by scientific ideas at the time that suggested the possibility of a literal eternal return, something like a hard reset of the universe at some point in the distant future, leading to a literal re-living of our lives, over and over again.
toblotron t1_jbpuz76 wrote
Hmm.. Interesting.
I thought the article was good -gave me a much clearer view of the concept than I had before
PuttinOnTheTitzz t1_jbp9a2h wrote
Thanks.
Maximus_En_Minimus t1_jbtvdre wrote
It is still debated if he believed it or not; he doesn’t write it like it is thought-experiment:
——
“The new concept of the universe. The universe exists; it is nothing that grows into existence and that passes out of existence. Or, better still, it develops, it passes away, but it never began to develop, and has never ceased from passing away; it maintains itself in both states. It lives on itself, its excrements are its nourishment. We need not concern ourselves for one instant with the hypothesis of a created world. The concept create is to-day utterly indefinable and unrealisable; it is but a word which hails from superstitious ages, nothing can be explained with a word. The last attempt that was made to conceive of a world that began occurred quite recently, in many cases with the help of logical reasoning,—generally, too, as you will guess, with an ulterior theological motive. Several attempts have been made lately to show that the concept that "the universe has an infinite past (regressus in infinitum) is contradictory, it was even demonstrated, it is true, at the price of confounding the head with the tail. Nothing can prevent me from calculating backwards from this moment of time, and of saying: "I shall never reach the end"; just as I can calculate without end in a forward direction, from the same moment. It is only when I wish to commit the error—I shall be careful to avoid it—of reconciling this correct concept of a regressus in infinitum with the absolutely unrealisable concept of a finite progressus up to the present; only when I consider the direction (forwards or backwards) as logically indifferent, that I take hold of the head—this very moment—and think I hold the tail: this pleasure I leave to you, Mr. Dühring!... I have come across this thought in other thinkers before me, and every time I found that it was determined by other ulterior motives (chiefly theological, in favour of a creator spiritus). If the universe were in any way able to congeal, to dry up, to perish; or if it were capable of attaining to a state of equilibrium; or if it had any kind of goal at all which a long lapse of time, immutability, and finality reserved for it (in short, to speak metaphysically, if becoming could resolve itself into being or into nonentity), this state ought already to have been reached. But it has not been reached: it therefore follows.... This is the only certainty we can grasp, which can serve as a corrective to a host of cosmic hypotheses possible in themselves. If, for instance, materialism cannot consistently escape the conclusion of a finite state, which William Thomson has traced out for it, then materialism is thereby refuted. [Pg 428] If the universe may be conceived as a definite quantity of energy, as a definite number of centres of energy,—and every other concept remains indefinite and therefore useless,—it follows therefrom that the universe must go through a calculable number of combinations in the great game of chance which constitutes its existence. In infinity, at some moment or other, every possible combination must once have been realised; not only this, but it must have been realised an infinite number of times. And inasmuch as between every one of these combinations and its next recurrence every other possible combination would necessarily have been undergone, and since every one of these combinations would determine the whole series in the same order, a circular movement of absolutely identical series is thus demonstrated: the universe is thus shown to be a circular movement which has already repeated itself an infinite number of times, and which plays its game for all eternity.—This conception is not simply materialistic; for if it were this, it would not involve an infinite recurrence of identical cases, but a finite state. Owing to the fact that the universe has not reached this finite state, materialism shows itself to be but an imperfect and provisional hypothesis.” 1067.
—-
“And do ye know what "the universe" is to my mind? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This universe is a monster of energy, without beginning or end; a fixed and brazen quantity o; energy which grows neither bigger nor smaller, which does not consume itself, but only alters its face; as a whole its bulk is immutable, it is a household without either losses [Pg 431] [Pg 429] [Pg 430]
or gains, but likewise without increase and without sources of revenue, surrounded by nonentity as by a frontier, it is nothing vague or wasteful, it does not stretch into infinity; but it is a definite quantum of energy located in limited space, and not in space which would be anywhere empty. It is rather energy everywhere, the play of forces and force-waves, at the same time one and many, agglomerating here and diminishing there, a sea of forces storming and raging in itself, for ever changing, for ever rolling back over in calculable ages to recurrence, with an ebb and flow of its forms, producing the most complicated things out of the most simple structures; producing the most ardent, most savage, and most contradictory things out of the quietest, most rigid, and most frozen material, and then returning from multifariousness to uniformity, from the play of contradictions back into the delight of consonance, saying yea unto itself, even in this homogeneity of its courses and ages; for ever blessing itself as something which recurs for all eternity,—a becoming which knows not satiety, or disgust, or weariness:—this, my Dionysian world of eternal self-creation, of eternal self-destruction, this mysterious world of twofold voluptuousness; this, my "Beyond Good and Evil" without aim, unless there is an aim in the bliss of the circle, without will, unless a ring must by nature keep goodwill to itself,—would you have a name for my world? A solution of all your riddles? Do ye also want a light, ye most concealed, strongest and most undaunted men of the blackest midnight?—This world is the Will to Power—and nothing else!And even ye yourselves are this will to power—and nothing besides!”
KodeineKonnoisseur t1_jbs7yn3 wrote
It's not a thought experiment; it's literal, to an extent.
Within the 'god is dead' conceptual framework, Nietzsche needed a post-christian metaphysical formulation - eternal reoccurrence was his best shot at that.
I specify "to an extent" because Nietzsche's reliance on the theory in his work was limited by his inability to make it logically bulletproof, but he really did believe in the idea of a cyclical universe.
[deleted] t1_jbovcl5 wrote
I would accept being me and living my life over and over again though I’m not sure I’m utilizing my life to the best of my ability but does that matter? Does this mean I still accept the eternal return? What is living life the best one can mean? That idea seems relative to the individuals perspective and desires, the only absolute clear answer is that we all die. I’m not sure I’m using my life the best way, but I only know my life and my perspectives so I can only live this life and I’m gonna die just like everyone before and after me.
Sorry don’t mean to ramble.
toblotron t1_jbpuqh3 wrote
I think the idea is that the more you live your life to the fullest, the more you would embrace the eternal return - just my impression from the article -i certainly don't know much about Nietzsche:)
Tealtime t1_jbp0jff wrote
>would accept being me and living my life over and over again
Sorry if i doubt that. It would put you closer to being the Übermensch than probably anyone ever. You sure there wouldnt be a single small thing you would have wanted to be different?
[deleted] t1_jbp0s0l wrote
You don’t need to apologize for your opinion, why do you feel that way though? I love being me, you don’t love being you?
[deleted] t1_jbp1owr wrote
I mean I’m very accepting of who I am, how people are or can be and the imperfections of the world. I doubt even the most successful people In history wouldn’t change details and choices they’ve made because perfection doesn’t exist. What do you mean a single small thing? I regret yelling at my dog for having an accident in the house, I wouldn’t change my life or who I am 🤷🏻♂️
Like I truly just don’t want to or can’t imagine being anything besides what and where I am.
[deleted] t1_jbox252 wrote
[deleted]
jliat t1_jbnouga wrote
You do realize GS341 was only part of what he thought was a physical reality? And that ones life was always and will always be fully determined.
Or that it is the most “gruesome” of ideas, to quote. It's reality.
Or that he was just trying to help us in our individual lives, live better. And it wasn't real at all.
CarbonAlchemy t1_jbrhr1w wrote
Time is a flat circle.
NVincarnate t1_jbqt57e wrote
I assume this is the truth. The reality of my life. Every day I think about this.
Oddly enough, the longer I live the more I remember about my life to be and to come.
[deleted] t1_jbrobps wrote
[deleted]
[deleted] t1_jbtgdrq wrote
[deleted]
fane1967 t1_jbp4hwb wrote
I think this model discounts the need to explore new possibilities despite how (dellisionally or not) content one might be.
frogandbanjo t1_jbqd0ft wrote
You must pair it with Nietzsche's general warning against contentment. Otherwise, yes, it quickly descends into a vat of weakness and risk aversion, where people say, "Well, sure, it's good enough that I'd just do it over and over, I guess, as opposed to any unknown alternative (including the void.)"
A more robust formulation would be: if you were going to have to repeat your life over and over, wouldn't you want it to be better in some way? If so, go make it happen already.
Granted, you can push back on the more robust version by attacking it in the exact same way as before: "Why risk it?"
I tend to think of it as a roundabout way of forcing people to realize that they're always settling. It at least serves to shatter the illusion that they're not.
Maximus_En_Minimus t1_jbtvne1 wrote
It is still debated if he believed it or not; he doesn’t write it like it is thought-experiment:
——
“The new concept of the universe. The universe exists; it is nothing that grows into existence and that passes out of existence. Or, better still, it develops, it passes away, but it never began to develop, and has never ceased from passing away; it maintains itself in both states. It lives on itself, its excrements are its nourishment. We need not concern ourselves for one instant with the hypothesis of a created world. The concept create is to-day utterly indefinable and unrealisable; it is but a word which hails from superstitious ages, nothing can be explained with a word. The last attempt that was made to conceive of a world that began occurred quite recently, in many cases with the help of logical reasoning,—generally, too, as you will guess, with an ulterior theological motive. Several attempts have been made lately to show that the concept that "the universe has an infinite past (regressus in infinitum) is contradictory, it was even demonstrated, it is true, at the price of confounding the head with the tail. Nothing can prevent me from calculating backwards from this moment of time, and of saying: "I shall never reach the end"; just as I can calculate without end in a forward direction, from the same moment. It is only when I wish to commit the error—I shall be careful to avoid it—of reconciling this correct concept of a regressus in infinitum with the absolutely unrealisable concept of a finite progressus up to the present; only when I consider the direction (forwards or backwards) as logically indifferent, that I take hold of the head—this very moment—and think I hold the tail: this pleasure I leave to you, Mr. Dühring!...
I have come across this thought in other thinkers before me, and every time I found that it was determined by other ulterior motives (chiefly theological, in favour of a creator spiritus). If the universe were in any way able to congeal, to dry up, to perish; or if it were capable of attaining to a state of equilibrium; or if it had any kind of goal at all which a long lapse of time, immutability, and finality reserved for it (in short, to speak metaphysically, if becoming could resolve itself into being or into nonentity), this state ought already to have been reached. But it has not been reached: it therefore follows....
This is the only certainty we can grasp, which can serve as a corrective to a host of cosmic hypotheses possible in themselves. If, for instance, materialism cannot consistently escape the conclusion of a finite state, which William Thomson has traced out for it, then materialism is thereby refuted. [Pg 428] If the universe may be conceived as a definite quantity of energy, as a definite number of centres of energy,—and every other concept remains indefinite and therefore useless,—it follows therefrom that the universe must go through a calculable number of combinations in the great game of chance which constitutes its existence. In infinity, at some moment or other, every possible combination must once have been realised; not only this, but it must have been realised an infinite number of times. And inasmuch as between every one of these combinations and its next recurrence every other possible combination would necessarily have been undergone, and since every one of these combinations would determine the whole series in the same order, a circular movement of absolutely identical series is thus demonstrated: the universe is thus shown to be a circular movement which has already repeated itself an infinite number of times, and which plays its game for all eternity.—This conception is not simply materialistic; for if it were this, it would not involve an infinite recurrence of identical cases, but a finite state. Owing to the fact that the universe has not reached this finite state, materialism shows itself to be but an imperfect and provisional hypothesis.” 1067.
—-
“And do ye know what "the universe" is to my mind? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This universe is a monster of energy, without beginning or end; a fixed and brazen quantity o; energy which grows neither bigger nor smaller, which does not consume itself, but only alters its face; as a whole its bulk is immutable, it is a household without either losses or gains, but likewise without increase and without sources of revenue, surrounded by nonentity as by a frontier, it is nothing vague or wasteful, it does not stretch into infinity; but it is a definite quantum of energy located in limited space, and not in space which would be anywhere empty.
It is rather energy everywhere, the play of forces and force-waves, at the same time one and many, agglomerating here and diminishing there, a sea of forces storming and raging in itself, for ever changing, for ever rolling back over in calculable ages to recurrence, with an ebb and flow of its forms, producing the most complicated things out of the most simple structures; producing the most ardent, most savage, and most contradictory things out of the quietest, most rigid, and most frozen material, and then returning from multifariousness to uniformity, from the play of contradictions back into the delight of consonance, saying yea unto itself, even in this homogeneity of its courses and ages; for ever blessing itself as something which recurs for all eternity,—a becoming which knows not satiety, or disgust, or weariness:—this, my Dionysian world of eternal self-creation, of eternal self-destruction, this mysterious world of twofold voluptuousness; this, my "Beyond Good and Evil" without aim, unless there is an aim in the bliss of the circle, without will, unless a ring must by nature keep goodwill to itself,—would you have a name for my world? A solution of all your riddles? Do ye also want a light, ye most concealed, strongest and most undaunted men of the blackest midnight?—This world is the Will to Power—and nothing else!And even ye yourselves are this will to power—and nothing besides!”
Maximus_En_Minimus t1_jbtwvct wrote
This may be found in the last collection of Nietzsche’s works, notes, and letters which was posthumously titled: Will to Power. It is not an official piece of Nietzsche’s, but it seems he did plan to write a metaphysical magnus opus on the Will to Power, until that damn horse incident.
There are indications Nietzsche was loosely influenced by new ideas in physics, especially with his understanding of energy.
The Eternal Recurrence, of how I understand it, seems to be an infinitude of infinite variation in which sameness, due to the breath of scope, inevitably infinitely re-occurs.
ztarfroot t1_jbqpmgz wrote
don't you love reading about something while realizing that you've already been intuitively putting it into practice?