AC already has a head start on looking more like Amsterdam’s red light district

I mean this both sarcastically and sincerely.

Good fucking luck, ya trash-ass capitalist dipshits.

May the dumpster fire you light warm somebody’s paws even as it burns you to the ground.

AC being great again would be awesome. I think we can all get behind that

May be too far gone at this point

Not sure why you are down voted - have people been there recently??

Brutal take

Either they haven't or don't understand how much AC has downslid in the last 20 years.

Yeah, sadly even $3 billion for new homes doesn’t change the city.

Amsterdam's red light district is actually nice. It's basically a tourist area. Grab a bite to eat, watch tourists walking around, and cheer on the guys and girls negotiating fees for sex!

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The Netherlands, a famously communist nation lmao.

Hey, Mods? I just tried to make this my user flair for the sub and it doesn’t seem to be an option. Please help.

Manayunk could look like Amsterdam with better investment in the Schuykill canal.

They must’ve seen what Hilco is trying to do with that “Bellwether district” project in SW Philly and want to follow suit.

Has anyone involved in the project been to AMS or understand the 1000+ year old history of the city? AC should be burned to the ground if they're serious.......just start over.

Oh, yeah, sounds super nice.

I’m all for legalization, and there’s certainly worse examples, but don’t romanticize Amsterdam’s handling of it.

Please point to the Dutch social democrat in the photograph. Do you actually know who any of these guys are? r/Netherlands, y’all laying claim to this trio?

But, and hear me out here … what if three rich assholes found a way to take what desperate people are currently doing for money in AC, and monetized it to their benefit without ever actually having to do sex work themselves?

FWIW, I’m all for legalizing and normalizing sex work. Work is work. But I don’t trust any of this crew to head up the effort.

Oh boy wait till you see how America does in that ranking. Sounds like it would fit right in.

I don't think the article makes the point you're trying to make.

For one thing, the article isn't specifically talking about sex work; it's talking about people who are exploited in "construction, agriculture, transport, sex and catering industries, as well as amongst people forced by criminals to beg".

Also, the article credits the Netherlands as handling this well:

>The Australian report ranks the Dutch government as having one of the world’s strongest responses to modern slavery

I lived in the Netherlands for 6 months and can tell you from first-hand experience that Atlantic City is in MUCH worse shape than Amsterdam.

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I mean, I’m the one that linked the report. I saw the U.S. on there.

How is the U.S. having a dodgy track record on human trafficking and slavery an argument FOR adopting a district ALSO associated with human trafficking and slavery?

Like, I’d get it if we were knocking it out of the park - yeah, it’s a problem there, but we’re really good at this. But we’re not that good at this.

I'm really just being facetious. I'm not for or against it, I think what's being proposed is impossible. Dumping a bunch of money into Atlantic City is not going to turn it into Amsterdam. The conditions that make Amsterdam a cool city, even if it does have a seedy underbelly at its center, are simply not present in the United States. It's not just 'canals and brothels.'

That said, I think it's pretty silly to pretend that what goes on in Amsterdam is uniquely evil. The same thing is going on in every facet of American culture

I almost downvoted this to match the vibe of the previous comment… but that’s kind of a dick move.

>How is the U.S. having a dodgy track record on human trafficking and slavery an argument FOR adopting a district ALSO associated with human trafficking and slavery?

The point is the article you linked references a study that doesn't distinguish between types of slavery you can't reasonably use that to draw your conclusion. Especially when they rate the United States as having three times the vulnerability index to the Netherlands, and almost 14 times the number of modern slaves

I don't understand who they think the target audience will be. There's not enough jobs in AC to support the local population as is, so 10,000 new homes makes no sense. Offices need to be located near workers, and it would be very difficult for a company to just up and move to a region with little to no college workers, not to mention a region where housing is either incredibly expensive or in very undesirable neighborhoods. Retail is just as baffling as there's plenty of cheap locations in the heart of Atlantic city would already be transformed for this if there was any customer interest.

Seems like this is just destined to be Revel 2.0 if it goes through.

As someone that has worked in low-income communities for decades, one thing I don’t think “normies” get is that when you have multiple generations of severe poverty in a row, shit gets really fucked up in deep and profound ways that there’s no quick fix to. It takes like half a century (if not more) of sustained and committed work to create incremental progress one generation at a time so that the grandkids of today’s severely poor have a decent chance.

But if you’re thinking geography, not people, sometimes you can revive areas via gentrification and displacement.

I would love to see Atlantic City thrive again.

It’s weird hearing my parents tell stories about how AC used to be the “east coast Vegas”

It seems like a bad idea to have a canal system with rising sea levels. Venice is having problems, and Amsterdam has some lead time on this proposed AC thing when it comes to keeping water at bay.

Of course it's Post Brothers. They tend to talk a big game

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I think there’s a better chance of eliminating all violent crime in Philadelphia than there is of this plan working.

yeah I've been to AC recently. But I was also in Fishtown 15 years ago, Fairmount 20 years ago, and Manayunk 30 years ago.

A couple billion in investments can turn around a "too far gone" neighborhood.

Yeah, good luck with that. Im rooting for'em but not holding my breath.

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Amsterdam or Hamsterdam?

that's why I always hate when people on hear complain about krasners policies "not working." like, yeah, you're dealing with multi-generational poverty. nothing that the DA has power to do will improve the situation overnight. it'd take decades of no mass incarceration to even begin seeing the effects of such policies.

ig they're banking on "build it and they will come," but Atlantic City is far enough away from a major metro area that I'm not sure that will hold true.

Mmhmm. Definitely not grifters. No way there is anything shady going on in a $3B pitch about Atlantic City made by a couple of guys from Philly. The only thing that would make it more legit would be if Donald Trump were attached to the project.

there was a point in philadelphia where you would be considered fucking insane to willingly spend time in kensington - and now it's arguably the hottest area for development in the city.

anything can happen with enough money.

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Our autocross club runs in that lot. It’s a lot of land, but it’s not actually near anything of note. It does have some easy access to the expressway but also not a lot of local infrastructure otherwise. AC is just too far from Philly or New York to become a large metropolitan area, and doesn’t have a sustainable industry of its own (outside the casinos which are going to hurt more now that Philly has better options). And it’s not like the Pineys actually want to go or live there either. I don’t see the opportunity in that area without some major redevelopment.

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Wouldn't they just be vacation homes and retirees?

Already has hookers and drugs

The last thing Manayunk needs is more development.

More housing is good tho

And if that sounds too far fetched, West Philly is actually considered a really attractive housing market right now.

“Capitalism”

This kind of investment will pay off if the northeast USA looks more like Megacity 1 from Dredd in a few hundred years. Other than that dystopian nightmare scenario AC has no redeeming qualities after you realize Monopoly has its streets based on AC.

Because if NYC can go from "Fear City" to what it is now, then we can believe that it's possible for every American city.

For those of you not around in the 70s and early 80s, NYC was like the Southside of Chicago. It was dangerous for everyone, crime didn't need a purpose it was just everywhere. It was despicable. But it's a safer city now. It's not at all like it used to be.

You don’t live here. They are putting hundreds of new apartments every year, with minimal new parking, all while cutting septa bus lines.

West Philly is a huge and diverse place. If you’re talking about University City, that’s nothing new or surprising in the slightest.

Cobbs Creek is certainly starting to gentrify (as people get priced out of east of 52nd) which is newer, but also was predictable enough if prices in Cedar Park continued to get unreasonable. And I don’t know if it’s really all that hot now, notwithstanding some eyebrow-raising sale prices during the height of the boom prior to interest rates going up.

I’ve been going to AC several times a year for a decade (some before that as well but with less regularity) and I have no idea why everyone is so damn negative on it. If anything it’s improved significantly - most of the casinos have seen non-gaming investment, there’s an indoor water park opening in/adjacent to the Showboat and they also have an indoor electric go-kart track and large arcade area, there’s (some) new construction around, Stockton has a campus there now, etc.

Sure, it’s still suffering the ill-effects of assholes like Trump trying to pilfer it without bothering to make any real investment into the city itself, but it still feels like it’s at least on an upward trajectory, even if it still has a ways to go

Let’s add prostitution and legal heroin use. I am sure this is plan of these wealthy developers.

AC will be just as nice as Amsterdam.

This gave me a chuckle cuz Amsterdam is like the flattest place on the planet

It's going to look more like Florida, not Amsterdam. It's not really not a good place to build. FEMA classifies it as a 'high risk' flood zone, I guess they may raise everything up? But good luck getting flood insurance, if you buy a place there.

Just have to put up with decades of violent crime and rising murder rates, then obviously everything will get magically better for reasons, yeah makes perfect sense

Obviously there should be higher frequency for bus routes. Plus, Manayunk has excellent rail access to downtown, it makes sense that parking isn’t as much of a priority.

Marty Bird involved in this project?

I would rather see a development like this in Camden along the waterfront then in a high risk coastal flood area like AC...

Needs more rail service , every 20mins...

It’s not his job to fix multi-generational poverty. His job is literally to prosecute crime. He’s objectively failing to do that or prove to be even remotely competent.

None of those neighborhoods are as bad as ac

It took 20 years for nyc to turn around

Were you there 15, 20, and 30 years ago?

Gotta start somewhere

It was! I saw the Supremes and Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons from my Dad's shoulders at like five years old. Bike rides on the boardwalk at sunrise. the Steel Pier and the diving horse. Hot Belgian Waffles with ice cream after a day at the beach. It was a magical place.

Now it is sad but it might be different.

It’ll end up being more like Venice in a few years.

Correct, Cherry Hill is the closest major “white collar” non-seasonal hub that has the industry salaries required to support and sustain this type of build. Nobody from Cherry Hill is doing this 45+ minute commute

it's possible there's enough remote workers now who will pick a beach city that's close enough to metros for occasional commutes to join their daily zoom calls from

we've put up with that because of decades of tough on crime DAs who have put massive swaths of the city into deep poverty. we need to stop doing that if we ever want crime to get better long term. the US has the highest incarceration rate of any country on the planet, yet somehow, we still haven't become the safest country on the planet. we need to try something different, and allowing time for families to build wealth without being incarcerated is a good idea.

It will be more like Atlantis city in about 50 years. Totally underwater.

Shortsightedness is the bane of society.

Lol

The idea that incarcerating violent criminals is a primary cause of poverty is completely insane, imo

$400K at 62nd and Walnut, that’s all I have to say.

Neighborhoods can and will change

>Plus, Manayunk has excellent rail access to downtown

They come like every hour (mostly 2) at best. Rail access sucks. Plus from Roxborough it's extremely difficult to get to the rail.

take a look at the list for yourself and draw your own conclusions. sort by incarcerations per 100k and scroll until you find a low-poverty nation anywhere near the US. then come back here and tell me the problem is we don't arrest enough people.

That’s an easily fixable thing though, they just need to up frequency. I agree roxborough is different

Thats a pretty funny response, but I think the OP was onto something.

Would love to see it as Vegas East

They came up with this idea whilst partaking in all the Amsterdam has to offer. Red light district and all.

All 3 were already gentrified in the timelines you gave. Fishtown 2007, yeah I almost bought there. Fairmount 2002 was definitely fine, and Manayunk 1992 was yuppie-fying already. None were nearly dangerous. Is AC hopeless, no I don't think so. But it needs A LOT. Mostly, attract WFH employees, improve the schools, and create jobs for the locals. It all sorta ties together, but requires time & investment. Also a little help from mother nature by no major flooding in the next decade or two.

In fairness, as sketchy as the boardwalk can get, I don't think there's been any gunpoint robberies, which I can't say the same for Center City and Philly as a hole, so there's hope!

I'm not saying "the problem is we don't arrest enough people". I'm saying "stop arresting people" is not a serious strategy to fight poverty.

Correlation does not imply causation. The US is a very different country than most of our low-crime European peers. We have orders of magnitude more guns, violence and crime. Hence it should not be a surprise that our incarceration rate is higher.

There are certainly arguments to be made that we incarcerate way too many people for, e.g., drug related offenses, but a blanket policy of "stop arresting people" seems like pure insanity to me.

There's jobs paying $100 grand within a bike ride of theses areas tho. Not the same for AC. Their best shot is making it attractive to WFH Philly & NYers, or cheaper 2nd home & AirBnB properties.

That needs to be their direction.

It has so much potential! It would be great for there to be fun stuff to do off of the boardwalk. I like this idea a lot.

I never said stop arresting people for violence, I said that arresting more people is linked to more crime, and so arresting less people for things like possession of drugs, petty theft, and other minor offenses is good, and not charging those people is good policy.

Seriously, AC is going to be under water in 10 years.

New Jersey has better weed than Amsterdam now.

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Should just demolish the entire city and rebuild it in Camden which has the space...turn AC into a nature preserve...

What's with the revisionist history? Fishtown wasn't bad 15, 20 or 30 years ago. Heroin was less of a thing during ANY of those times, pills didn't even become an issue until the '00s. Eddie Bisch was the first dude that made the news.

Remote work in tech isn’t slowing down, despite what the biggest companies might have you believe. They all want their workers back in office because their campuses are mini-ecosystems that will rot away otherwise, making it a huge waste of money they won’t be able to sell easily. Most tech is still done from home these days.

Two Questions. How far is it from the NJTransit station since Transit Oriented Development is pretty popular right now? Two: How are they gonna prepare for more frequent hurricanes and storm surges that go this far north in the next few decades?

20 years ago the dorkiest dude i knew moved fishtown - it was already gentrifying

Can’t be a casino destination anymore, Jersey needs this

Exactly. Although Manayunk is one of the few parts of Philly that would benefit from a Funicular similar to Pittsburgh or an aerial tram that connects to Lower Merion township

These people are ridiculous man, talk out of their asses constantly

I could see it being popular among wealthier international immigrants.

I am from the Netherlands and i live in Philly now and have been to Atlantic City and I can vouch for this. To get AC to look like Amsterdam they'd neeeed a lot more than 3 billion.

*Blastien talks a big game without getting much done, but Post Bro’s actually do get stuff done. Pretty sure they’re building the two largest multifamily projects currently under construction in Philly in NoLibs and at Broad & Washington. Blastien had to bring them in to save his ass at Broad and Washington.

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Vegas is over-developed. I actually think AC has too many casinos as well. Should honestly keep Ocean Club, Harrahs, Borgata, Trop and Hard Rock. Bulldoze the rest. Build condos, mixed use development, triplexes and maybe a handful of single family houses in their place.

The prices in all the other neighboring shore towns have sky rocketed in the last 10 years. AC in many ways has a blank slate and people will start to go there if nice developments are built. It's a train ride from Philly and the casinos have year round quality restaurants that you don't necessarily get in the other shore towns.

It will take a massive amount of capital to get the ball rolling, but the potential is absolutely there.

This made me curious and I checked out the Sold option on Zillow. Closest thing I see is a 3 bed/3 bath house at 62nd and Walnut for $245k from earlier this year. That is a pretty bananas price for that far west and does speak to a wild market, but I'm not seeing 400k. That number just started to show up for larger houses in the 52-5300s at the height of low-interest-rate real estate boom.

There are some people with clearly no grasp on what the market will actually support, listing houses like this at 62nd and Ellsworth for laughable prices. But I don't see the real gentrification wave reaching that far any time soon.

Well, sir, there's nothin' on Earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified six-car monorail!

I hadn’t been there in close to a decade but was just there a few weeks ago for a concert and I agree with you. It looked a lot nicer than it used to.

Bader Field is about a 15-20 min bus ride from the bus terminal and train station

It would need to remove the boardwalk and gentrify a lot of the area first.

Worst case projection puts Shows a 3’ rise in sea levels by 2100. AC is 7’ above sea level. Probably worth the risk. All of us will be dead in 2100.

anything would be an improvement over the disgusting mess trump started

Hurricanes will creep up in power and in northern latitudes and ferocity as climate change accelerates. Wouldn't get too excited about this idea.

I don’t see Atlantic City being revived if they keep charging Vegas prices. It’s not an upscale place so stop pricing it that way.

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Even just basic investment in Camden would be nice. Trees and shade on the sidewalks along the coast, a few parks, and a few more nice things to do near Rutgers. Small quality of life things to make Camden’s waterfront more pedestrian-friendly would go a long way for relatively cheap.

They make it unwalkable to keep the poor out, but they don’t realize the tourists they also keep out

Good point

So, I see about 4 or 5 houses over $300K, and one for $470K on south 62nd. I am trying to see how I can see previous home sales prices for the $400K at 62nd and Walnut.

South West for close to $400K is insane

was a figure of speech. Yeah, not verbatim like Vegas, but a weekend getaway spot. More year round tho

There’s actually an ongoing project right now to redevelop/restore the Sluice House right outside of Manayunk and reconnect the canal to the Schuykill. So, they’re trying.

Just give it 50 more years and AC will be below water level, just like amsterdam, no investment needed

How much would you value the house in that listing at?

I have no idea honestly, but 470k is absolutely insane for that location.

I like a day trip, and the atmosphere, not sure I would not want to live there though.

Camden already has basic investment lol

Why not both?