> While the SEPTA and city representatives seemed focused on near-term solutions like creating bus lanes on the boulevard, a PennDOT engineer informed the audience that the second phase of PennDOT’s Route for Change would begin in a few weeks and that a subway alternative would be studied alongside other transit modes like Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) and Enhanced Bus and Light Rail Transit (LRT).

Seem to be making wild assumptions with that headline

They are gonna sandbag this so hard

A BSL extension was already studied wasn’t it? Do we really need to waste more time and money for another one? Just build the damn thing, and the Navy Yard extension

Believe it or not but there are already plans drawn up in 1923-27 for entering the Roosevelt Blvd from the Erie ramp.

It’s just a general Roosevelt Blvd study, the subway part will probably be an afterthought “still expensive af probably not worth it”

This was asked during the other community meetings. He short story is that the study needs to be redone with current costs and updates. It sucks but the last one is almost 10 years old now.

I feel like they're gonna lump this in with trolley modernization in the end and just make it light rail with a transfer to the bsl, which is stupid. even then I may be giving penndot and septa too much credit and they may end up with just some bus lanes with fancy stops and pretend it's brt.

A few weeks ago I talked to an engineer with some inside knowledge on the Navy Yard extension and the development of that industrial wasteland on the way out to the airport. These related projects are big - the necessary task of moving all the train infrastructure between the stadiums and the Navy Yard is no small feat. This guy said we would see minimal changes in our lifetime, and that this is a “hundred year job” with no exaggeration.

[deleted]

This idea isn't a good one

OK, so here's the thing: Bus Rapid Transit doesn't inherently suck. It sucks because we usually do it badly and make it get stuck in traffic along portions of its route. The Boulevard is the PERFECT place for it to be done correctly, with its own right of way, signal priority, and generous stations akin to what you'd expect for a tram service. There's so much horizontal space available, high traffic speeds, etc. I would love to see rail instead some day, and we should contemplate that future when designing the BRT system. But we have limited funds for this sort of thing and we can get a good BRT done cheaply there. That plus an improved connection to the BSL would be so much more valuable than a shiny new rail project. (And you can imagine BRT connecting west as far as the Wiss Transit Center or continuing onto Route 1, which rail is not going to do any time soon.)

I don't know. Where have you seen bus Rapid Transit that doesn't suck? All the models including this article point to Bogota Colombia as an example with their Transmilenio system. I lived in Columbia for 3 years and can tell you that it is absolutely awful especially when compared with an actual Metro in Medellin. This project already has the ridership to supporta subway.

But if we don’t study it again, we can’t pay our traffic engineer friends a lot of taxpayer money and also what about parking?

That’s because they want it to drag on because traffic engineers get more money, for a generation.

It can be done in 20 years, but the union/Philly/old heads want it slow, rich and perpetual

[removed]

it can be done in 2 years. it could be done in 1 year. If it can't it's not because of physical limitations, but systemic issues.

I was going to make some snarky comment about how it technically does make it extremely marginally closer, but ... it actually does not in any way make it closer. It would probably lose on the merits to the other proposed ideas.

[removed]

[removed]

👍🏾

The Boulevard extension is not rocket science. An earlier poster noted the link is already ready at Erie Ave and I believe it’s even visible if you know where to look. A station was constructed under the Sears building (and of course never used).

This is transformative thinking for the city and region. The KoP extension with its two-car trains can never carry the number of taxpayers that 6- and 8-car trains can.

Perhaps it’s Montco’s turn for big transit bucks? …it’s everybody’s turn. And I won’t see it finished.

Pittsburgh, Eugene, San Bernadino, LA, Mexico City, Ottawa are a few examples of great BRT systems

I would 100% prefer heavy rail, but BRT has a lot of potential here as well

Relevant City Nerd video here

Nice! More places to be robbed and shot!

The point of the 2019 subway study was to avoid the CSX tracks entirely with tunnel boring. But even then they sandbagged it with extravagant stations and PIDC responded in kind by updating their master plan with 13,000 parking spaces. https://www5.septa.org/wp-content/uploads/about/2019-bsl-extension-study.pdf

I found the BRT line in Guadalajara, Mexico to be pretty great. And Pittsburgh has its issues but it mostly works. (Still too much potential for it to be held up by gridlock, poorly behaving drivers, etc., in my view. You've gotta clear and protect the whole route or it's just a bus.)

To be clear, I would absolutely support a rail project if the conversation were about, say, the state legislature significantly increasing funding for SEPTA and the various ways we might use that new infusion of cash. (I think the width of the boulevard still counsels in favor of something above ground, but there's no reason that can't be rail.) I'm making this argument in the context of (1) SEPTA's meager capital budget, and (2) the existential need to eliminate as many car miles as possible as quickly as possible.

My understanding is that the rail proposal is being pushed now in part bc of the federal funds available in the infrastructure act. If the density is already there for rail it seems like a waste to settle for BRT.

Light rail with signal priority would be great, I'm imagining the riverline. For all the problems the riverline has (I commute on it daily), it is generally clean, has low headways, quiet, and safe IMO. Longer service hours would help.