Submitted by dc122186 t3_11zvd9t in philadelphia
Cobey1 t1_jdevfih wrote
Why do they support the arena? Is the work being done promised to majority of Black construction crews? This press conference doesn’t make sense if majority of Black workers aren’t going to be building the site? Also another big take: why not build the arena in a Black neighborhood if it’s that big of a deal? North Philly has a ton of vacant land near major public transit that would be amazing to fill the void of a disenfranchised community. All of these big power players seem to be focused on this dumbass market east arena when they could invest the billions into disenfranchised communities like North, west, or SW Philly.
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdf3yt9 wrote
because it’s very hard to build a downtown arena somewhere other than the downtown area
nsweeney11 t1_jdfmnab wrote
Down (the broad street line) town
Cobey1 t1_jdf4izi wrote
North Philly is a better location 1000%. It’s centralized to the city and region, public transit oriented, and the community needs a big investment project to revitalize the area.
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdf4s4c wrote
The Sixers aren’t trying to revitalize an area they’re trying to move to Center City
Cobey1 t1_jdf5be9 wrote
That’s weird because that’s been the ENTIRE push behind the whole arena in market East. Either you don’t know what you’re talking about or the 76ers are doing a horrible job marketing their proposal!
PurpleWhiteOut t1_jdf6pd7 wrote
That's their narrative but the only thing they want to revitalize is their wallet
AbsentEmpire t1_jdfi3mh wrote
The brunt of the argument is that the location is transit oriented, the secondary argument is driving business growth on East Market.
North Philly can provide neither of these things as well as center city can.
Cobey1 t1_jdfn55z wrote
North Philly has access to public transit and is a much higher priority than market east right now. Market East needs multi-unit housing, thriving restaurants and small businesses, not a huge arena that will be open 3 nights a week. Sorry, a 76ers arena was never a solution to revitalizing market East
AbsentEmpire t1_jdfqiez wrote
North Philly doesn't have the same level of tranist access as Market East, not even close. Trying to pretend it does is stupid.
East Market has been languishing for decades, an arena coming in on top of a major tansit hub will absolutely help drive further investment down East Market.
You're trying to pretend that for some unspecified reasons blocking development will also magically drive development and build up Market East, despite that plan not working out for decades.
I get your a nimby and the idea of center city growing upsets you, but you're wrong for all the usual reasons that nimbys are.
The arena replacing a dying mall on Market Street, right next to the convention center and Reading Terminal will be good for the city.
UndercoverPhilly t1_jdhwfar wrote
Hello? North Philly SEPTA RR station? Some of the RR stop there and easy enough to get to Jefferson station and take one stop on a train or MFL. Amtrak stops there. MFL does too.
AbsentEmpire t1_jdjewhu wrote
Market East is a one seat ride on every single rail line in the city, North Philly is not.
Civil_Peak t1_jdfz5fa wrote
> North Philly doesn't have the same level of transit access as Market East, not even close. Trying to pretend it does is stupid.
Actually your off. You might be right about North Philly not having same transit, but the rails are there and can be built easily.
However the better location is West Philly. Amtrak comes into 30th street, NJ Transit comes into 30th Street, Septa subway, rail, trolley comes into 30th Street station. 76th is right at 30th street. There is a lot of cheap land in West Philly. There are 2 level 1 trauma centers in West Philly, 1 for adults and 1 for kids so any incidents then you can get medical care right away.
Yes you're missing Patco but maybe the 76ers can help pay to extend Patco and I think there is a desire for that.
[deleted] t1_jdg7x6j wrote
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Civil_Peak t1_jdg96lv wrote
I said Rail not subway. What does subway have to do with rail. two different thing. There is a rail line in north philly not a subway line.
Amtrak, NJ transit matter when someone coming far from the suburbs. If you live in Lancaster, Coatesville there no Septa rail so you would need to take Amtrak unless you want to drive.
A trauma center means you get the highest level of care. Penn Hospital is not a level 1 trauma center so you're referencing something that has nothing to do with it. The advantage of West Philly is that CHOP is right there so if a kid has a medical incident they're close by. Medical care is important when you have large crowds as someone is going to get hurt and easier to just bring them to where they can get care instead of the ambulance having to figure out what going on and possibly rerouting to somewhere they can get care.
Cobey1 t1_jdfrucl wrote
😂 you’re so out of touch with actual Philadelphians it’s hilarious. Did you move here last year or before the pandemic bro?
AbsentEmpire t1_jdfsg2y wrote
I've lived here longer than you've likely been alive, and 100% longer than when you moved here from the suburbs on your parents dime.
But do please keep beclowning yourself by saying North Philly is as transit accessible as the litteral hub of every major line in the city, then claiming you know what all Philadelphians actually want.
Cobey1 t1_jdft0m2 wrote
I was born and raised here, k-12 public ed, community college, I’m Philly made man, can’t say the same about you though 😂 you yimbys love to step on other peoples toes with no concern of the impact you cause on communities of color. Everything in the name of ‘revitalization’ but at the expense of Black people’s quality of life. No surprise you support Rebecca either, considering you have zero concerns for the people opposing 76ers market East in Chinatown and adjacent communities.
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdf78ng wrote
well that’s how you sell it but they are not looking to North Philadelphia or the waterfront or anywhere like that. They want their own arena and they want it right in Center City.
nsweeney11 t1_jdfmpoz wrote
They are doing a horrible job marketing the proposal are you new here
Cobey1 t1_jdfnto2 wrote
That was my attempt at sarcasm through text lol I was born and raised in Philly, even been a lifelong sixers fan and I think the arena in center city is dumb. I like where it’s at in south Philly. If something ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdfp3ge wrote
well, it is broke…. because they are paying rent and they don’t want to do that anymore
ADFC t1_jdid29n wrote
“But that’s not a good enough reason for me!!” - half this sub
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdiddix wrote
people seriously have an inability to see things from another’s perspective.
ADFC t1_jdieuvj wrote
The Sixers are not a charity, they’re a sport organization. I don’t know why people are expecting them to act like Habitat for Humanity, even though they’re more than happy to invest 50M+ into the community…
Like it or not, the Sixers will not play in South Philly after 2030. Whether we lose million of tax revenue to Camden due to these bad faith arguments will be another story for later on.
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdigc1h wrote
most of the negative comments are because people from the suburbs find it very easy to go to Wells Fargo Center and park. That’s what they’re used to. That’s what they are comfortable with.
EmmaSchiller t1_jdr6i94 wrote
LOL you're so dense you think we don't "see things from another's perspective" in this regard??
Of course we can see they don't want to pay rent. But we don't care. It's literally rich ass fucks not wanting to pay rich ass other fucks so they can be more rich.
cruelhumor t1_jdg0psv wrote
... Or Camden
BulbasaurCPA t1_jdfkcog wrote
Too fucking bad, no one wants it there but them
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdfor8j wrote
i wasnt aware this was going to go by popular vote
BulbasaurCPA t1_jdft3ge wrote
I feel like “don’t build things that are wildly unpopular with the residents” is a good policy for a city to have in general, but that has not stopped most cities unfortunately
OnionBagMan t1_jdfwakg wrote
What you are describing is a suburb and HOA type idea rather than a city.
People in cities hate everything. Paris hated the Eiffel Tower. People hated the Empire state building and people hate Comcast 1.
I get where you are coming from but for a long time Philly didn’t even want tall buildings. That set the city back about 100 years behind Chicago and New York.
Maybe a car oriented stadium isn’t what we need. Maybe we will lose the stadium to Camden. Who knows? Just don’t tear stuff down to make parking lots and IDGAF what you build. That’s just me though.
ReturnedFromExile t1_jdg4qb3 wrote
not only that the people that hate things are the vocal ones. Plenty of people are perfectly fine with the idea of an arena in Chinatown.
An_emperor_penguin t1_jdgg2w0 wrote
There's potentially going to be a lot of black construction workers on this project, it would be odd that they would need this project specifically but the trades have stayed horrifically segregated; the post brothers got around using union labor for their The Poplar project by hiring minority laborers. So big projects like this are the only quick way to get black men into the construction jobs they've been kept out of.
>All of these big power players seem to be focused on this dumbass market east arena when they could invest the billions into disenfranchised communities like North, west, or SW Philly.
I think you're confused what's happening, this is a proposal for a basketball arena, not a charity project. They're willing to invest in center city because they will make money by doing so, building an arena in a bad spot will not make them money.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_jdf1tp8 wrote
People are allowed to evaluate the potential impact of things without needing that impact vivisected through racialized bribe solicitation.
Black business owners in this group are just black business owners and they like the arena. What the hell are you even talking about with the black construction crews?
Cobey1 t1_jdf3958 wrote
Heard. Black leaders in this city held a press conference today talking about how this new arena will be revolutionary for Black business owners, why not really push a pro-Black agenda? It’s half assed. A 76ers arena in north Philly is better for the entire city and region. It’s centralized, public transit orientated, the project would probably cost A LOT less due to value of land, and it would prioritize investing into a Black neighborhood. I don’t understand why Black leaders in this city miss this clear opportunity to really bring a W to a community that hasn’t been vibrant since the 1960s.
PurpleWhiteOut t1_jdf6j1b wrote
The sixers don't give a shit about revitalizing anything, they just want valuable real estate and sales. Im sure they suspect people won't want to go to a neighborhood that needs revitalization to go to other arena uses like concerts. Black leaders may have brought it up but there's no way they'd even consider it especially without subsidy
Cobey1 t1_jdfa1wg wrote
The 76ers could/should pivot in this direction. They could be pioneers championing an unprecedented investment in a community that is STARVING for economic opportunities. It would be a ricochet effect improving North Philly commercial corridors, bring different and new people to the community, and neighborhoods could be built outward from the arena (east of the arena is fishtown/Kensington, West of arena is brewerytown/Fairmount, etc). I would be okay if city/state officials subsidized a revitalization project like an arena in North Philly, it’s a community that desperately needs investment, good paying and sustainable jobs. Imagine if the 76ers committed to this and in return, they provide youth sports & recreation facilitiesx academic centers, etc. for youth in that area or the entire city, and the city/state in return tax abate them or some other form of subsidy. This whole market East debacle is just a huge missed opportunity from Black leaders who pretend to “champion” pro-Black agendas like this press conference, but then say nothing about the disenfranchisement of the communities they pretend to advocate for.
AbsentEmpire t1_jdfhvqv wrote
The second they do that all the same arguments about why Temple can't have a stadium will come right back for a 76ers North Philly location, but with even more claims of gentrification, colonizers, etc.
The center city location on top of a train station and fronting Market St is a logically good choice that will benefit East Market, a North Philly location is just not as good for a variety of reasons and is why they didn't propose it.
UndercoverPhilly t1_jdhx6pb wrote
Except those that live surrounding it don't want it. I include myself in that and I live on the other side of Broad, about 10-15 minutes walk to where they propose to build this stadium. It would be much better in North Philadelphia (or keep in South Philly where it is). It would revitalize that area and bring more restaurants and businesses. It would actually be INVESTING in a part of Philadelphia that the city for the most part ignores.
AbsentEmpire t1_jdjgiej wrote
It makes no sense in North Philly by any metric. There's no location there that's as accessible to the entire region as Market East, that has every rail line as a one seat ride, that has the highway access, the parking garages, or that has the existing entertainment service infrastructure to support it.
The only locations that make sense are Market East, the Stadium Complex, or Camden. The Sixers want a downtown transit oriented building, the bankrupt mall owners want to downsize the property, and the city wants Market East to develop more; which is why building on top of Market East Station makes perfect sense.
UndercoverPhilly t1_jdjy6v2 wrote
It won't happen at Market East.
Tall-Ad5755 t1_jdlfz9x wrote
Ok. And the people in packer park hate the sports comp. But it gotta go somewhere. Why not a place where density is expected.
UndercoverPhilly t1_jdm3szt wrote
I don't think it will be built there. I can't know for sure how this will play out, but a stadium in Center City would just change the character of the downtown completely, and not in a positive way, IMO. I'm mostly familiar with MSG and that is an area I would avoid like the plague in NYC unless I had to ride transit. Lots of vagrants and cheap stores, fast food around it. (We already have that at Market East!!) But NYC is huge so go 8 blocks in each direction and the character completely changes. Philadelphia has a very small downtown from just river to river and put a behemoth like that in it and it won't be as easy to escape. But we'll see.
People complain about the area a lot but it's still better than it was in 2006/7 when I moved to Philly. I remember the first time coming out of Market East the year before moving to Philly with a friend who picked me up at the train station and being shocked at how rundown and creepy it was. (And I grew up in NYC so I know rundown and creepy). The area around the RTM and Convention Center was definitely NOT safe and I remember there being some publicized stabbings of tourists during some holiday event in the first few years that I was living in Philly. At first, I used to take the Chinatown bus (before the other buses) to commute a couple of nights between downtown Manhattan and Chinatown and I made it walking home each night around midnight but it was definitely sketchy. Sometimes the entire stretch under the Convention center street was filled with homeless sleeping on the sidewalk.
Crime, drug addicts and homelessness are the problems in the area, and until the CITY does something about that, you could put the Taj Majal there and it's still going to have repercussions.
Tall-Ad5755 t1_je2otii wrote
There are just as many examples of it changing cities for the better.
I mean DC, has the Verizon center, the movie theater, the portrait gallery all right there which makes for a damn good setup; all on top of metro center where the two lines connect and right near Union.
Then you have LA which built a whole entertainment center at Staples.
Then you have places like Minneapolis and Denver and Detroit where all their stadiums are downtown even the large ones…and they’re the better for it.
Boston, which created an entertainment center at their arena on top of north station….for the better of that area.
Atlanta has their arenas and stadiums downtown and it would be dead if not for that. I just don’t see how Philly is some special case; I don’t see us screwing up what so many lesser places has gotten right. Only thing I would concede is yeah, our streets are pre-car tiny but the transit access is amazing and the direction we should be going. I mean from a consumer standpoint what’s better than parking at your local patco/subway/regional station and commuting in; you save a ton of money, a ton of headache, and no traffic. This will be popular if Septa gets the trains timed right. This area should be the absolute center of our entertainment district; the celebrations should be on Market not South Broad. Wit all the ads and screens and add this; and a few hotel towers ths will be a poppin area; jus gotta have the vision to do transformative things.
PurpleWhiteOut t1_jdfco7q wrote
I agree. The only thing the sixers care about though is the value of owning an expensive piece of center city real estate
FifteenKeys t1_jdfhh37 wrote
This is a tremendous idea. Reporters need to ask the 76ers if it’s been considered.
owl523 t1_jdfcqsq wrote
An arena in north Philly might be great but that’s not on the table. An arena in CC is and it would be good for many people in the city.
Cobey1 t1_jdfdofs wrote
The media markup is giving the appearance that a market east arena is on the table, but it’s really not lol Chinatown made sure a casino and a Phillies stadium was dropped years ago, they’re not going to let another dumb proposal set up shop on their door step. This was a lost cause from the very beginning and the only reason it remains a salient topic is because the 76er owners keep paying media to keep it relevant.
DelcoBirds t1_jdf7el1 wrote
>It’s half assed.
It's realistic, unlike
>A 76ers arena in north Philly
[deleted] t1_jdil67g wrote
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justanawkwardguy t1_jdiu9zd wrote
They view the needed investment in the surrounding area as too high of a cost. Yeah, they could get the land cheaper in North Philly than CC, but then they have higher rates of violent crime to worry about and try to fix.
There's also the fact that whatever neighborhood they put the arena in would be subject to radical changes and gentrification. So the communities that they'd claim to be helping, they'd actually be forcing out
Civil_Peak t1_jdfy8yv wrote
> Why do they support the arena?
besides the public "Forty percent of the food, drink and concessions operations in the arena will be run by African American businesses", I wouldn't be surprised that the people that endorsing this is getting some sort of enticement. Plus, are any of these people directly impacted, I see a Pastor for a West Philly Church (that construction must be big if a church in West Philly is affected).
Cobey1 t1_jdg0i40 wrote
I get the 40% for vendors stuff, but why is the Black Clergy getting involved? That is very weird to me and makes me skeptical about what is being said behind closed doors. To me, idk why any leader of any faith would get involved in a debacle about the location of a sports arena. They could be advocating for more affordable housing, cheaper public transit fares, public ed, etc, not the construction of a sports complex. That itself rings red flags 🚩
Civil_Peak t1_jdg25mq wrote
clergy is how people get things done. When a politican wants to get elected one of the people he convinces is your local clergy so that clergy member can advocate for you. It the same thing with projectors. You might say "did you hear Pastor so-so talk about how great that new project would be for our community".
[deleted] t1_jdilb9i wrote
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msbfromthep t1_jdi331i wrote
Hmm as a person of Faith and a black woman, I agree with you. There are many others things, that the black clergy and business persons should be focused on. I get wanting to help “minority” trade workers with contracts but this is one the BC/business people can sit out!
UndercoverPhilly t1_jdjyw5u wrote
Disclaimer: Pay Wall. Maybe these questions are answered in the article: Where are all these African American businesses in the Fashion District? Why would they be in the stadium when they aren't in the area now? I don't see many in Reading Terminal Market either. What makes this proposed stadium more likely? Will the rent be less? And when will it be ready? Not in a year, so I don't think they even know what vendors will be in it.
[deleted] t1_jdfbyzz wrote
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