Comments
bengalese t1_jd4t97z wrote
"Parking during the posted times could result in delay or cancellation for the day."
Am I reading this right? They won't be towing cars, just canceling the street cleaning.
[deleted] t1_jd50ph0 wrote
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troutmasterflex t1_jd585ym wrote
This was exactly my reaction when I head they were implementing street sweeping— thank god the car with the cover over it that hasn’t moved in 2 years will finally have to move.
MonsterNog t1_jd6ag2q wrote
I bought a second car before the pandemic because I needed it and I haven’t had to drive more than a couple of times in 3 years now so mine just sit there
Mrfrunzi1 t1_jd6jdlv wrote
You should consider selling it or finding a second life for it, maybe a relative needs a car?
MonsterNog t1_jd6jjil wrote
I’m waiting til my son can drive in a couple of years now, I should probably move it around before then tho
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MonsterNog t1_jd7rjaj wrote
I’m gonna spray paint the word Gooch on the side or something and single handedly ruin this neighborhood, myah!
throwawaitnine t1_jd5w90z wrote
This is what happened last time. PPA would write you a ticket for not moving your car and street sweepers would never show up. Then streets dept would say it was cause cars didn't move. So one asshole wouldn't move his car and the cleaning crew would just skip your block. So you are inconvenienced for no reason.
MajorNoodles t1_jd5ufxb wrote
Cancel trash pickup too. People will learn real fast to move their cars. Their neighbors will make sure of it.
[deleted] t1_jd81zqq wrote
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gigibuffoon t1_jd69qe4 wrote
My neighbors got tickets last year for not moving the cars during cleaning time... This sounds like they're just not gonna do it this year!
mikebailey t1_jd6q0zz wrote
Tickets don’t do anything if they don’t tow, same old same old
drunkcowofdeath t1_jd4jvh8 wrote
I'm surprised the PPA doesn't keep up with this. Seems like an easy way to steal cars generate money.
NewcRoc t1_jd4o88j wrote
Hey, its free real estate parking.
hairlikemerida t1_jd61jll wrote
Don’t worry. They’ll get everyone.
I live in the pilot neighborhood and they didn’t really start ticketing hard the first year. Last year, they were bloodthirsty.
rollingstoner215 t1_jd4lbtz wrote
You had it right the first time
slylock215 t1_jd4ptlh wrote
That's the joke YOU SUCK MCBAIN
Florachick223 t1_jd53q64 wrote
My street had signs up for months last year but I never saw a single ticket. Really hoping we get some enforcement this year.
jk137jk t1_jd7nah9 wrote
PPA left signs on all the cars in my area about 2 weeks ago. It said they will start ticketing and then towing if your car isn’t moved for the cleaning.
Hopefully that’s effective because I completely agree no one is gonna move their cars.
PhillyAccount t1_jd4jufd wrote
I don't really understand why the city is taking a piecemeal, neighborhood level approach to street sweeping. Just do it citywide and rip the bandaid off.
woah_whats_thatb t1_jd4od34 wrote
City can't hire enough people.
newmanification t1_jd7yzut wrote
Sure they can. They just don’t want to.
saintofhate t1_jd85ns6 wrote
Take some of the cops' budget, cleaning up areas would do more than cops as the more pride people have the more likely they'll be opposed to doing shit things.
bingworm t1_jd7sdja wrote
I'll do it
Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jd4ouc2 wrote
Large programs are best done in phases as a pilot program. Doing this citywide without neighborhood pilots to gain learnings from results in less wasted money and big process-related mistakes. They are doing this in phases, in key areas, so they can learn how to rollout it out citywide in a more effective manner. Project rollout is a key part of success of said project
Thot_P0cket t1_jd4qmad wrote
> Large programs are best done in phases as a pilot program. Doing this citywide without neighborhood pilots to gain learnings from results in less wasted money and big process-related mistakes. They are doing this in phases, in key areas, so they can learn how to rollout it out citywide in a more effective manner. Project rollout is a key part of success of said project
This isn't splitting the atom, it's cleaning trash out of streets using machines that have been around for decades and are used by thousands of people regularly in cities all across the country.
I'm sure that somewhere out there in the United States there are resources the city of Philadelphia could use in order to fully implement functional street sweeping in the city without having to waste time and money fucking around with pilot programs.
cerialthriller t1_jd4rqov wrote
They still haven’t figured out trash collection that’s been done since Roman times
cashonlyplz t1_jd63q4r wrote
People apparently don't know how to even throw their trash away--it certainly exacerbates the sporadic service we've been dealing with the past few years
cerialthriller t1_jd66oy5 wrote
It’s a three pronged problem. First, your trash cans disappear really quickly. The lids even quicker. Two, people pick through your trash and recycling and just toss it on the ground to get to what they want, not to mention animals do this also. And lastly, the trash men don’t give a fuck if they drop something or rip a bag and just throw your can back at your house over the cars if you still have a can
cashonlyplz t1_jd8csz6 wrote
Ugh, I feel you but some of them do their job above and beyond (e.g. trash trucks with a broom and dustpan mounted on the back are a good indicator).
I have stories.
The biggest issue with the city is near zero on-the-ground accountability towards nonsensical behavior, be it of a citizen or a municipal worker. How many times a week do I have to see idiot contractors pushing brick dust or what-have-you, down a street grate. It's absurd.
puckpanix t1_jd65jpd wrote
My observation is that most people put it out properly, but (if the garbage crew can even navigate down the street due to illegal parkers) half the bags are opened and picked over by junkies before they make the route.
cashonlyplz t1_jd8bugm wrote
I'm fortunate whereas I don't live around too many junkies, and crack/crackheads are much harder to encounter nowadays. My next door neighbors have two ypung kids and at least three or four adults in their place.
We live in West Philly. We have trees. we have squirrels and avians. The house produces so much trash by the day after trash day, and they don't cover them at all and of course squirrels and birds rip into the bags and then there's trash everywhere, and it gets blown into our little front yard. I swear, I came home one day and a squirrel looked like it wanted to fight me, it was so well fed. They take the food to our porch and eat and shit there.
They recently put a campaign sign up for Jeff "Pick Up the Damn Trash" Brown. The cognitive dissonance pisses me off to no end.
There's trash everywhere because these people think civil servants are their personal custodians, and not something that need to take the smallest amount of responsibility for.
Trash pick-up isn't perfect, and the pandemic took out workers they're still working to replace, but ye gods, people don't take responsibility for their own actions (or, as often is the case, inactions)
Away_Swimming_5757 t1_jd4xsby wrote
It's not rocket science, but its also operationally intense. You can't just copy and paste other cities approaches because we have a completely different operating model.
They're doing this in limited scope because there will likely be many unforeseen situations that will need to be addressed. They will analyze and react to the unforeseen stuff which will give them a more realistic view of the painpoints of the actual sweeping and the operational painpoints of capacity planning for this appropriately. They will also need to likely hire and reassign different teams to support this so understanding which roles and accountability decisions will need to be made.
Once they have muscle memory built up and find a good balance of operational finesse, they can consider expanding it to be more wide reaching.
Large programs, even when the task at hand is not complex, become inherently complex once its added into a larger function (aka city government/ municipal services). This is a widely studied aspect of program management and should not be underestimated.
erdtirdmans t1_jd55tgg wrote
We literally used to do this. The city layout hasn't changed much at all. Roll out the old plans
oramirite t1_jd5evnd wrote
"roll out the old plans" is pretty clearly an oversimplification of what it takes to run an infrastructure service in a major city. It's not simple.
felldestroyed t1_jd57wp2 wrote
And tow/ticket a whole bunch of poor people's cars so they can't show up to work? It's easy to say "tough shit" online, but a whole lot more goes into public administration than that.
GruffEnglishGentlman t1_jd5b97t wrote
Then move the damn car. This isn’t rocket science and it’s not oppressive.
oramirite t1_jd5f5wm wrote
Stop claiming something has to be rocket science in order to be semi-comllicated and operationally intense.
felldestroyed t1_jd5e127 wrote
Lol, yup, just as easy as that. No one will be harmed! It's not rocket science, it's common sense yall! Until your entire district is lighting up your switchboards wondering why noone informed them and why the hell we even need street cleaning - it was fine to your constituents before now. And the retiree really hates that you towed her car and she knows how she will get back at you: a primary.
You act like this isn't something that hasn't been studied for around 150 years. That the first Roosevelt didn't struggle implementing - that every single politician and city manager implements. There are doctorates in this and they still can't solve it. And fortunately for these neighborhoods: they won't just be railroaded any longer, like they were for at least 3 generations with highways, railways, and shitty gentrification.
erdtirdmans t1_jd6eut0 wrote
Oh, well, poor people might be affected by our attempts to improve the city. Might as well just let it degrade to shit. That way all the poor people who can't move out of it can enjoy what's left of it knowing that we were really nice to them when we doomed them to hell
[deleted] t1_jd4yd11 wrote
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oramirite t1_jd5f2y8 wrote
No, a pilot program is literally so that any problems in the rollout(any large rollout ever has them) have a minimal financial effect, and then you very quickly bootstrap those lessons into the wider plan. What you're suggesting wouldn't even speed things up that much and very well could doom the program again if a small issue runs amok because they opened the floodgates too early.
TheTwoOneFive t1_jd5f6lq wrote
It took a full street sweeping season before they would allow PPA to ticket cars. We are about to start the 2nd season after the expansion to 14 areas and they have announced it will be another season and a half away before the next expansion in July 2024. At that point, they will add 6 more areas.
Based on average size of the areas, in July 2024, five years after they started the "pilot programs", the city will cover about 8% of the city surface area with street sweeping zones, and that does not include the smaller streets. For example, in the Point Breeze Map area, the city is missing tons of smaller side streets that are wide enough for a sweeper, but requires cars to be moved to do so (e.g. Fernon, Chadwick, Mole, Hicks, etc). Additionally, there are streets that a sweeper can get down even if someone is still parked there, like Montrose or Oakford, but are not getting swept currently.
There is ZERO reason it should take this long to roll out street sweeping to such a small area, without even a public timeline on a full rollout.
PhillyAccount t1_jd56iok wrote
Okay, this makes sense. I guess my concern is that the city calls the pilot a "success" and then moves on to something else.
NewcRoc t1_jd4pjvh wrote
They can't do it all at once - ppl have to move their cars somewhere.
Florachick223 t1_jd54ac7 wrote
That's why they're alternating streets on different days of the week.
this_shit t1_jd54vzk wrote
Alternate-side parking works by sweeping only some streets during some times on some days, and other streets on other times on other days. That way, only a fraction of cars have to move at any one time.
The reason to implement this city wide would be to avoid confusion from people who (for example) regularly park in two different neighborhoods, or to prevent (the inevitable) backlash in the kickoff neighborhoods. The other reason would be to clean the damn city.
[deleted] t1_jd4ogca wrote
The easiest thing to do is just go park in a non-swept section nearby.
woah_whats_thatb t1_jd4ofou wrote
City can't hire enough people.
[deleted] t1_jd4pt1j wrote
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[deleted] t1_jd7qshz wrote
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saintofhate t1_jd85ukp wrote
They should schedule it the day after the area's trash days, get all the stuff the workers just spread around and it would be easier for most to remember.
youngbuck215 OP t1_jd4gmsb wrote
Frankford: Bridge St. to Adams Ave. from Griscom St. to Torresdale Ave.
Germantown: Berkley St. to Chelten Ave. from Pulaski Ave. to Wakefield St.
Kensington: 2nd St. to Kensington Ave. from Tioga St. to Lehigh Ave.
Logan: Godfrey St. to Roosevelt Blvd. from Broad St. to 5th Sts.
Nicetown: Broad St. to Clarissa St. from Hunting Park Ave. to Windrim Ave.
North Central: Broad St. to 22nd St. from Glenwood Ave. to Diamond St.
Paschall: 58th St. to 70th St. from Greenway Ave. to Dicks St.
Point Breeze: Christian St. to McKean St. from Broad St. to 24th St.
Port Richmond: Kensington Ave. to Aramingo Ave. from Tioga St. to Lehigh Ave.
South Philly: McKean St. to Oregon Ave. from 4th St. to 8th St.
Southwest: Woodland Ave. to Kingsessing Ave. from 49th St. to Cemetery Ave.
Strawberry Mansion: Diamond St. to Lehigh Ave. from Sedgley St. to 33rd St.
West Fairhill: 5th St. to 13th St. from Glenwood Ave. to Susquehanna Ave.
West Philly: Parkside Ave. to Spring Garden St. from 52nd St. to 40th St.
go_berds t1_jd4k4ta wrote
If you don’t move your car, your moms a hoe
PopularPopulist t1_jd5mgqv wrote
I wish someone would listen: It’s NOT THE TRASH, it’s the un-bagged recycling that is covering our streets. Please, actually look around; it’s not dirty diapers, it’s not piles of uneaten food covering our streets. When you see “trash” on the ground PLEASE ask yourself: “does this look like stuff my neighbors would try to recycle?” 9 out of 10 times, it is.
This is because the city has a rule against bagging recycling. And since we can’t use bags, stuff falls out of our recycling bins- Usually from when it’s really windy, or when the recycling people dump the bins and stuff falls out (or gets stuck in the bins and then falls out when it gets thrown back to the curb). I’m not saying nobody is to blame here, but I’m telling you that street sweeping won’t fix the cause of the problem: un-bagged recycling.
Inevitably, someone chimes in with “the recycling plants can’t handle stuff in plastic bags” as if it’s too expensive to hire someone with a knife to open the bags before the stuff is sorted. Nah, we can’t do that. Much too hard.
Every time I say this stuff I get downvotes because it doesn’t fit this sub’s weird narrative about who is at fault, but please, just once, compare what your sidewalk looks like the day BEFORE recycling day, and the day AFTER. Look around at what’s covering the street. 9 out of 10 times it’s un-bagged recycling.
ToughLittleTomato t1_jd5z4ie wrote
This. I moved from Philly to Wilmington and the city provides large, heavy duty, lidded recycling and garage bins for every residence. The bins don't blow over. They don't break and the lids don't fall off.
Yea, ol' Wilma is a smaller city and it would be costly for the city of Philadelphia to provide every residential building these bins, but it is working for us. There is no trash all over the street UNLESS a neighbor is not using a city provided garbage bin and is choosing to use their own open garbage can (I am looking a you, person down the street!). The loose recycling IS a problem.
PopularPopulist t1_jd603pk wrote
Thank you for this. I agree it would be a lot, but it would be worth it.
fadetoblack1004 t1_jd6dgjc wrote
My little borough in southern Chester County does it. If we can afford it, Philly can find the funds. I think they're like $60 ea when bought in bulk. Really not that much $ in the grand scheme of things.
ApocSurvivor713 t1_jd690cm wrote
THIS!!! One time last year they didn't come for our recycling for over a week. My girlfriend called 311 probably 20 times as the recycling built up. What was a reasonable amount for our bin (& those of our neighbors) inevitably began to overflow within a few days as people made good faith efforts to deal with their recycling, then the wind picked it up and distributed it nicely all over the street.
Lindsiria t1_jd9312e wrote
This was something I was baffled with I first visited Philly.
I'm from Seattle and we have unbagged recycling as well, but our bins have lids that swing open. (https://www.seattle.gov/images/Departments/SPU/Services/Recycling/Recycle_Right_Carts_Logo.jpg)
This keeps the birds/wind from moving things around, while still keeping it easy to open. I never understood why this approach wasn't used in many areas of the east coast.
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estelle2839 t1_jdg8poe wrote
People don’t even know what belongs in recycling and what doesn’t (hint: your cardboard pizza box isn’t recyclable).
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martymoran t1_jd5o0us wrote
this is just way oversimplifying an issue that has plagued philadelphia for its entire existence
PopularPopulist t1_jd5qfg5 wrote
It’s really not. I look around my neighborhood every day. I never see rotting food. I never see ANYTHING on the ground that doesn’t look like someone thought they could recycle it. Why does everyone think this issue is impossible? Other cities don’t have this problem? Other cities can’t deal with it?
passing-stranger t1_jd7czjo wrote
YMMV. I see all the things you say you don't see on your street.
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Brraaap t1_jd4hhfd wrote
Maps and schedules are available on the city's website
https://www.phila.gov/programs/mechanical-street-cleaning/cleaning-schedule/
this_shit t1_jd55cnv wrote
omg, they really did it - instead of a simple interactive map, they posted 14 individual PDFs.
this damn city...
felldestroyed t1_jd5akq9 wrote
Haha, I was downvoted for saying a candidate for mayor shouldn't have a bunch of PDFs for their platform. I'm not sure why you're surprised.
GumshoeAndy t1_jd4i9qf wrote
Fuck yes! Now please expand it.
SweetJibbaJams t1_jd4m71m wrote
Everyone on my block was pissed they had to move their cars for essentially no reason, even more when they ticketed and still never swept the street.
NerdDexter t1_jd5pkpb wrote
Yeah the only people who like this are people without cars or people who have off street parking.
The street cleaners are barely gonna make any noticeable difference when it comes to how filthy our city is, but now we have to remember to move our cars every single week and find parking when one entire side of the street is off limits. Hard enough to find parking when both sides of the street are available.
rossdowdell t1_jd4wvm2 wrote
7th and Snyder hasn't been cleaned since 1938.
I might want to witness this.
MaladjustedCarrot t1_jd6gfhv wrote
LOL
8Draw t1_jd4ncey wrote
Nice. Just hoping they ended that leafblower bullshit
bigassbiddy t1_jd4hlo6 wrote
Thank fuck
shnoogle111 t1_jd4igvb wrote
Christmas came early
typeytypetype t1_jd4ibqq wrote
Finally.
mundotaku t1_jd56hpk wrote
Now they only need to fix the potholes!
Froot-Batz t1_jd58b0n wrote
GAH! IT'S NEVER MY STREET!
FunSizeJohnny t1_jd656dq wrote
Why isn’t grays ferry on this list? So sick of trash blowing all over the street and in front of my house from elsewhere!
shapu t1_jd67z7x wrote
Fucking good
eblueweiss t1_jd8dlro wrote
This is the best news!! And anyone who complains about it can rot in a pile of garbage.
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Rmlady12152 t1_jd5pgw3 wrote
👍
Throwaway4philly1 t1_jd8w4qa wrote
Why cant they vaccum under the cars? What kind of engineers didnt think of that?
[deleted] t1_jd9bex3 wrote
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OfferCorrect278 t1_jdcc10l wrote
Recycling cause more trash than just about any other source.
Finger_Gunnz t1_jd5ouq9 wrote
It’s been back for some time.
Fragrant_Joke_7115 t1_jd5wn97 wrote
Man, everyone just get bikes.
lanternfly_carcass t1_jd66dpl wrote
The bristles puncture bike tires. I work at a shop and we would routinely get flat fixes the days that the sweepers come through Germantown. Also, the drivers wouldn't let me pass them on my bike and then intentionally tried to run me off the road. So yes, get bikes, but street sweeping is stupid (at least how they do it in Philly)
[deleted] t1_jd7n0ze wrote
See, I always thought those thin wires were separated parts of radial tires from drivers riding on “may-pops” too long. Have to get a heavy duty bike tire to avoid them
DrJawn t1_jd4lj0g wrote
Can't they just put a broom and a shovel back on the trash trucks and have two more guys on the crew?
Either way, anything is better than nothing
lanternfly_carcass t1_jd664ti wrote
Street sweeping hardly picks up any trash. The bristles often puncture bicycle tires and the drivers are dicks.
[deleted] t1_jd4knqw wrote
Good thing my area of west philly is going to be missed. I imagine that it will rotate around areas in further phases? They never explain shit clearly. The maps even say “collection day” , are they really talking about sweeping or are they talking about trash trucks?
shalashaskatoka t1_jd5w23d wrote
My question is this... So when I travel for work....where the hell do I put my car? Pay for a lot spot for weeks?
yogaballcactus t1_jd8kstx wrote
Have a neighbor or friend move it for you.
Park it at one of the suburban train stations with a huge parking lot.
Park it at the airport.
Just leave it on the street and pay the ticket.
This is an actual problem, but it’s not a big enough problem for all the rest of us to live in trash just so it’ll be a bit more convenient for you to travel for work.
hey_itsmythrowaway t1_jd7cbnh wrote
the reddit answer is "dOnT hAvE a CaR" as if thats feasible for most people who live and work outside of CC + directly adjacent. let alone desirable. the trains are extremely limited, buses take half the goddamn day, its unsafe for women especially from dusk to dawn and almost always requires walking - which, in a place with scorching summers and wet cold winters - is unfeasible and undesirable for most people. and again, not safe for women.
can you even get to wissahickon from the northeast via septa? does it take less than 3 hours one way? and if you want to actually leave the city? forget about it.
stay classy reddit bros. fuck women's safety amirite?
everydayacheesesteak t1_jd5l4oh wrote
Nice. The poorest areas of Philadelphia. To extract millions of dollars in fines from every year. Gotta push em out somehow for the developers. Progress bay beeee.
hey_itsmythrowaway t1_jd7b2ps wrote
there is no winning with people like you. they are targeting the dirtiest neighborhoods. what would your response be if they were targeting higher class, mostly clean neighborhoods? is that a better idea?
everydayacheesesteak t1_jd7pcwy wrote
You’re unbearably naive. My response would be the same. It’s another revenue generating scam to pour money into the Philadelphia black hole of corruption and crony bureaucracy. Don’t you get the entire point is to collect money??? How can you fall for this??? All they have to do is get recycling bins with a top that closes or switch to bagged recycling. Or maybe stop recycling paper all together of it ends ups dumped all over the city streets every trash day. This is classic dipshit progressivism. Create 3 fucking problems for every one you solve. Emphatically congratulate yourself for the problem you barely solved that wasn’t even a problem to begin with. You want less waste in the production of glass, paper and plastic? Let’s have everyone separate it all and fine them if they don’t and collect it twice! OH and now you can’t bag plastic, paper or glass so it blows all over the street and there’s trash everywhere now. Instead of going “this is fucking mistake,” propose a grand new solution, bang every Philadelphian with a car a few hundred dollars a year so they can drive a cleaning machine down the street and scrub the gutters. Oh does it matter at all that the problem isn’t dirt and oil, it’s trash?? Street cleaning is for dirt and oil in cities that have little rain. It’s not for fucking picking up newspapers, genius.
TilikumHungry t1_jd4qy08 wrote
Very surprised people are celebrating this. I lived in a neighborhood in LA that had terrible parking but nowhere near as bad as philly neighborhoods, and we had street sweeping twice a week (monday one side, tuesday the other side) and it fucking stunk. Paid so much money in parking tickets on the rare week i would forget (if you forget twice a year its like $180).
The reason LA needs it is because it basically never rains (this year being an exception) so we need street sweepers to help clean the excess oil off the streets. But it rains plenty in philly and if its just about trash then i would think its better to just have sanitation teams go clean up streets with brooms and trash pickers.
Then again a lot of ppl in Philly dont have cars so i can assume that those people dont care.
vmtyler t1_jd4uw0j wrote
They do this in functioning cities all over the world. I think Philly people can handle moving their cars
magellan315 t1_jd4x02d wrote
You forgot the Philly slogan created by one of the morons on City Council; "this is Philly, we drive our cars to the corner store."
GooFoYouPal t1_jd5dkh2 wrote
He’s not just a moron on City Council, he’s also the President!
NerdDexter t1_jd5pwmh wrote
Says someone who probably doesn't have a car or has off street parking.
vmtyler t1_jd5q4d5 wrote
I have a car and no off-street parking. I think the difference is I didn’t grow up in Philly so the idea that this is the only way it can be isn’t seared I to my brain.
UndercoverPhilly t1_jd4rkdc wrote
It doesn't rain enough to clean up the stench in Philly. I live here. Masks really help walking around outside. Maybe if you are in your car you don't realize it. But street sweeping is not enough, they need to WASH these streets and sidewalks downtown. Residential areas are probably not as bad.
Complete-Matter-3130 t1_jd4te4j wrote
Yeah I feel like everyone in this thread is going to be singing a different tune once the tickets start flying in.
I lived in Somerville and they did it twice a month and you basically just constantly got tickets. Holidays switched the schedule around, they would come in like a 5 hour window, just super annoying.
NerdDexter t1_jd5q159 wrote
Agreed. Only people who are celebrating this are people without cars, people who live in areas that have abundant parking, or people who have off street parking.
NewcRoc t1_jd4idv1 wrote
They better bring tow trucks. A lot of ppl will ignore this otherwise.