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nowtayneicangetinto t1_j9vegx5 wrote

Reply to comment by Fattom23 in 78-Unit, Mixed-Use Project Approved in Fishtown by ColdJay64

As some one that lives very close to this, I have to say, it's a mixed bag. Here's the deal as far as I see it.

If you plan on moving into Fishtown from this point on, don't plan on owning/ bringing a car. If you don't then you're fine. However, the reality is, a lot of people own cars and they won't see this being an issue until they have moved in and realize they are driving around for 45 minutes every night looking for parking. I see this happen all of the time and it leads to people parking in dangerous or illegal spots, because there is no parking.

I get the whole "the city should be for city people" but is this really a tangible reality? The demographic that Fishtown attracts are upper middle to upper class young singles or couples. Driving is indeed a luxury and those that can afford luxuries will want to keep them. So how does it work out that the same people that are being attracted are supposed to willingly give up one of their greatest and most beneficial luxuries? I know a decent amount of people in this immediate area and I can't think of an instance where at least one household who doesn't own a car.

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throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j9voaa9 wrote

This is a self-solving issue. People will bring cars, be upset by the hassle it is to have a car, and normal people will be like well what the fuck did you think was gonna happen, dipshit?

If they manage to build out this area without cars, with many small shops and restaurants, finish and connect the Rail Park, and build out better street car infra, increase service on the metro, and even in 5-10 years a new metro line that goes parallel to 95, that area would become a whole new “downtown” style of area by itself. There is so much space in Philly, this whole project could be really really great. I’m excited.

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nowtayneicangetinto t1_j9vrq2v wrote

Is there such a plan for a rail line that follows 95?

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tkdnw t1_j9vv21g wrote

No Unless they mean restoring the 15 to Port Richmond after work on 95 is done (a decade out from now)

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throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j9vxwgf wrote

No but there should be one. DC had had a lot of success building new metro rail that is just adjacent or parallel to their big highways.

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Philitian t1_j9wdtkw wrote

It's absolutely tangible. Only 22% of households in Manhattan own a car, and it's one of the richest places in the country.

What's the solution? Further integrated cycling & transit networks, for one. If the MFL were even slightly cleaned up it would alleviate this significantly. If it didn't feel like a death trap biking through NoLibs down to Old City through the 95/676 interchange, way way more people would take up cycling.

It's an opportunity for car rental companies to market towards people that only desire occasional use of a car, and would rather sell their personal vehicle due to the hassle.

The long-term solution is to de-incentivize car commuting in NE Philly entirely by capping or reducing the capacity for 95, but we're a long ways away from that being a politically popular suggestion.

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nowtayneicangetinto t1_j9x1e45 wrote

New York City proper is absolutely massive in comparison to Philly. It's like comparing the Earth to Jupiter. The amount of high paying jobs available to New Yorkers is far greater than Philadelphia. I tried to work in Center City but I couldn't find a job where I wasn't taking a pay cut, and the pay I found was much higher in the burbs. The truth of the situation is that a carless Philly isn't possible nor will it ever be in our lifetimes.

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Philitian t1_j9x5lts wrote

It's always been a tax war with the suburbs & edge cities. They're still planning a rail extension to KOP. I'm not an economist, and I'm not going to argue whether the wage tax or the business taxes in Philly need to be cut to compete with the burbs, but I will say that the way these municipalities encourage businesses to locate their operations miles and miles from our population centers is appalling.

But one thing that I can speak with certainty of, is that the greater the professional labor pool there is within the city limits, the more employers will be incentivized to take advantage of it and seek more competitive candidates by relocating to the city. That can only come with continual investment in the city, regardless of the barriers.

I don't get why Philly people are so deprecating about this place. This city's seen such persistent development & job growth over the past decade, yet people still want to act like it's destined to stay in the gutter. It's weird.

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mustang__1 t1_j9z15e0 wrote

I'd have to sell my home if 95 was kneecapped more. Or sell the business. I like living in south Philly, I don't want to live where our business has been for twenty years in ne. But hey.... Fuck me right?

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Philitian t1_j9z3ndb wrote

It's not about giving the brunt to ordinary people like you. It's about actually implementing an equitable tax policy, where businesses aren't incentivized to center their operations way out on the edge of the metropolitan area. King of Prussia has a population of 22k yet it employs 60k jobs - mostly tech, media, and admin in the white collar sphere, nothing that couldn't be done in an ordinary hi-rise here in the city. It's insane that's even allowed.

Like I implied, we're a long ways from capping the highways. That's long-term, but the jobs need to move back here first, obviously.

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mustang__1 t1_j9z4wur wrote

My business is still on the city, just ftr

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Philitian t1_j9z60kt wrote

I don't get it, then. I've only ever worked in the city & I've always either biked or taken transit. If it's simply a matter of those types of infrastructure being improved, then it's a different discussion entirely. And yes - even if you need a vehicle for work, reducing the amount of traffic in the city will only benefit you.

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mustang__1 t1_j9zaeu1 wrote

I don't get your point. I wasn't against expanding infra. I was against setting it up so you both can't use a car and can't commute to within city limits.

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Philitian t1_j9ziw91 wrote

Urban highways primarily function to channel commuters to-and-from the city limits. If there were less of that exchange in commuting patterns, they would not be necessary. It's not about uprooting the car infrastructure entirely, but reducing traffic to the extent where it can flow effectively without these humongous blights diving our neighborhoods, spitting pollution onto its residents, and putting everyone at risk who needs to walk past their exits.

Highways ought to encircle a city's perimeter and terminate when they enter the city limits. The rest of the way, the traffic can move at speeds safe for pedestrians. Philly actually does this much better than most other cities in the US, but we should still make sure they don't expand further - otherwise, the only outcome is more displacement and urban blight.

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respondstostupidity t1_j9wh3zh wrote

> Only 22% of households in Manhattan

We're. Not. Manhattan. I get that everyone new wants to turn us into New York, but it's not going to happen.

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Philitian t1_j9whya0 wrote

It's just a counterpoint to their suggestion that rich people will naturally want a car. I don't want Philly to be Manhattan either, trust me, that place is snooty, abrasive, and claustrophobic, but Philly can still be Philly with less of a car culture.

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mustang__1 t1_j9z1c24 wrote

I mean if we had a solid and well connected subway that ran every 15min it'd be a different discussion....

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respondstostupidity t1_j9wq9oo wrote

It's an inequivalent comparison because our needs are not the same.

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Philitian t1_j9wtjnb wrote

...we're both cities. Very similar ones, for that matter. We both need housing. We both need less cluttered streets and traffic jams.

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respondstostupidity t1_j9wutss wrote

Vegans and non-vegans are both humans. Very similar ones, for that matter. We both need food.

Inequivalent.

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NotJoeyWheeler t1_j9wz751 wrote

funny example because vegans and non-vegans still have a ton of overlap with ingredients lol

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respondstostupidity t1_j9x0zx5 wrote

Thank you for understanding that just because there are similarities, that doesn't make them the same thing.

I should know better than to try to have a discussion with someone who starts with a fallacious assertion by not recognizing that our cities have been influenced differently on a sociological and economical level.

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AugustusKhan t1_j9whjut wrote

I just tried visiting a friend Friday night for a big life event, we had to turn around n go home after stressfully driving for over a half hour.

There’s no parking, then there’s literally no parking hahah

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