Mehndeke t1_j9u814w wrote
Reply to comment by OnionLegend in Family of elderly man beaten to death with traffic cone blindsided by teen suspect posting bail: 'I lost it' by JBizznass
Bail is required in all cases where the maximum punishment isn't mandatory life without parole.
So, if you're charged with 1st or 2nd degree murder, where the mandatory sentence if convicted is life without parole, you don't get bail.
If you're charged with 3rd degree murder, max 20, or if you're a juvenile, no mandatory life sentence - though you can get life, you are entitled to bail. What that bail is, and whether you can post it, however, are different questions.
muffpatty t1_j9ul3lp wrote
3rd degree is a max of 20-40 years I believe.
Mehndeke t1_j9ulpx1 wrote
"Max", as used in PA, just means the highest minimum part of a sentence. And judges have to set both a minimum and maximum, with the minimum being no more than half the maximum. So, 20-40 just means the minimum a defendant has to serve is 20, with parole possible for the next 20 years. A 20-30 year sentence is illegal, while a 15-40 is possible. It's really weird.
And then, if convicted with a 2nd or subsequent 3rd degree murder charge, you get mandatory life!
So, don't kill people. It makes for complicated maths.
muffpatty t1_j9useio wrote
No max means 40 years. The way it is defined in PA is that the minimum can be no more than half the maximum. So the max he can get is 40, the minimum can be no more than 20.
Mehndeke t1_j9v15a3 wrote
18 Pa.C.S. § 1103:Except as provided in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9714 (relating to sentences for second and subsequent offenses), a person who has been convicted of a felony may be sentenced to imprisonment as follows:(1) In the case of a felony of the first degree, for a term which shall be fixed by the court at not more than 20 years.(2) In the case of a felony of the second degree, for a term which shall be fixed by the court at not more than ten years.(3) In the case of a felony of the third degree, for a term which shall be fixed by the court at not more than seven years.
You'll note the lack of 40 in that statute. Not more than = max. The maximum a person can be required to serve in custody, without the right to a parole hearing, is 20 years for a 1st degree felony. That maximum becomes the minimum for a court ordered sentence of 20-40 years, since the minimum has to be, at most, half the maximum.
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It's semantics, ultimately. The difference between a "legal" max and a "commonly understood to be" max. But when the statutory maximum isn't mandatory life in prison, bail is required.
muffpatty t1_j9v20ez wrote
I know we're arguing semantics and ultimately we arrive at the same conclusion, at least relating to 3rd deg murder. But am I crazy or doesn't what you posted mean that mean the max for an F1 offense is 20, meaning 10-20 is the maximum sentence you receive, not 20-40.
Mehndeke t1_j9v2qmv wrote
Legally speaking, it means that F1 can be sentenced to 20-40. Anything more than 20 (on the bottom end) results in an illegal sentence that'll get the defendant a whole new sentencing hearing to correct.
Like I said, it goes back to the "maximum" time a defendant can be held in custody following a conviction without requiring a parole hearing. Which becomes the low end of the spread. It's weird. An F2 can get 10-20, and an F3 can get 7-14. Misdemeanors do the same thing at 5, 2, and 1.
timesyours t1_j9we3vy wrote
PA Criminal defense lawyer here. u/muffpatty is correct and u/mehndeke is slightly off.
The max for an F1 is 20 years (or 10-20 under the min/max rule). 18 Pa. Section 1103
The max for murder 3 is 40 years (or 20-40 under the min-max rule). 18 Pa. Section 1102(d)
If you’re convicted of an F1 you could only be sentenced to more than 20 years if its stacked consecutively with something else. But murder is not an F1, it’s in a category of its own in PA.
ETA: there are also exceptions under the mandatory minimum sentences for 2nd and 3rd strikes for repeat violent convictions. Strike 3 has a 25 year mandatory minimum
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