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trashpandarevolution t1_j9riz7c wrote

The teens are not ok

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Vague_Disclosure t1_j9rjhhf wrote

no they really aren't, this country has some serious cultural issues it needs to figure out

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AgentDaxis t1_j9s8x5h wrote

This country also has some serious gun proliferation issues it needs to figure out.

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EnemyOfEloquence t1_j9tdcne wrote

It's already illegal for under 21s to have handguns. This is culturally driven. Go to R Slash PhillyWiki and see what drives this.

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ramvan t1_j9tlry7 wrote

The thing that always gets me about what you said is that those guns didn’t just appear out of midair, someone legally bought them and possessed them before the teens did. We need much better tools for pursuing straw buyers or sellers (presumably mostly private and not FFLs) who sell guns to teens and people who’d fail a background check. That should be the highest priority law enforcement action for reducing gun violence.

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bikingwithscissors t1_j9u8nw7 wrote

Then the ATF should stop wasting time and resources on regulating pistol braces and actually focus on real issues.

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ramvan t1_j9uh1ac wrote

The ATF should be allowed to computerize records to make it easier to trace illegal guns back to the last legal owner. That would be a game changer.

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Zhuul t1_j9u8ip5 wrote

We also need civil penalties for people who improperly store firearms in their glove box since that’s the single biggest avenue weapons take to the illegal market. Insane that I had more liability as a bartender than these jackoffs have with weapon-related negligence.

Motherfucker either keep that shit strapped to your body or leave it at home.

E: source https://everytownresearch.org/gun-thefts-from-cars-the-largest-source-of-stolen-guns/

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ramvan t1_j9uheb8 wrote

Yes! If your gun is stolen out of your glovebox or dresser drawer or any other insecure location! Safes and trigger locks should be a standard expectation for storage!

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[deleted] t1_j9tfsjq wrote

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AgentDaxis t1_j9tnd63 wrote

There were far fewer guns in circulation back in the 90s than there are today.

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harbison215 t1_j9tjbhd wrote

Disagree. And even if you are right, the people today shouldn’t have so many guns if it’s the people that have changed.

There are close to 400,000,000 guns in this country. It’s far too easy for these teens and any other idiot to get their hands on guns and ammo. There is absolutely no common sense or mind for public safety in the ways we manufacture and distribute guns in America. A few very common sense measures would probably go a long way in reducing gun violence over time, but that would likely mean gun manufacturers would lose some money, and the NRA would lose some political influence, so we can’t have that.

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[deleted] t1_j9tllzx wrote

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harbison215 t1_j9tng60 wrote

Faulty logic that undermines every law ever made. Murders don’t follow the murder laws, rapist don’t follow the rape laws, so I guess those laws are useless as well?

And the fact is, the largest worldwide studies conclude that some very simple, nationwide changes to gun laws have reduced gun violence in other countries by significant amounts.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/2/29/11120184/2016-gun-control-study-epidemiologic-reviews-deaths

https://www.science.org/content/article/three-types-laws-could-reduce-gun-deaths-more-10

None of the proposed laws would restrict would be gun owners from purchasing guns. Just like having to register your car and get a license doesn’t actually restrict people from owning and driving cars. What it does do is link people to their weapons and make them more responsible for what happens to their guns. Responsible gun owners don’t make straw purchases and they don’t “lose” their guns or have their house broken into and their guns “stolen.”

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[deleted] t1_j9tq76n wrote

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harbison215 t1_j9trjor wrote

Then we are in agreement that private gun transfers need more regulation. It’s not really that hard to find a consensus when you’re obviously using common sense. Nobody is saying “take everyone’s gun,” “there should be no guns.” At least I’m not. My point was and is that we are ridiculous in the way we recklessly treat the distribution and transfer of our guns. Even worse is that the laws are different state to state. Illinois has tough gun laws? New Jersey too? No problem I can just take a 15 min ride to Indiana or Pennsylvania, problem solved. It’s just a dumb way to do things.

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[deleted] t1_j9txd0f wrote

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harbison215 t1_j9ty0pm wrote

I don’t consider gun owners to be enemies. I honestly don’t own guns, never felt the need to have one and wasn’t brought up around them. I’ve lived 40 years without ever having or feeling like I need a gun.

With that in mind, I believe it’s on responsible gun owners to want for our national situation with guns to be solved. It’s not a great position for normal people to be in where they have to basically defend what feels like a free for all for violent criminals. I don’t understand the logic of the rationale of a mindful gun owner that sees how we do things and the resulting culture of violence and crime and shrugs their shoulders like “na we shouldn’t change anything.” If guns were my thing and a part of my daily life, I think I’d be even more vocal about having more common sense. Instead of getting defensive, the true rightful gun people should get offensive and proactive, not drag their feet. That’s just my opinion.

Edit: I think responsible gun owners arguing against any new reform is the best case for banning all guns. If even the most responsible gun owners lack a rational thought process when it comes to these weapons, then maybe the cause is lost and the only solution should be no more guns. Like I said, I think it would behoove common sense, responsible gun owners to have a more pragmatic view on gun laws and possible reform, rather than just kicking and a screaming the moment it’s brought up.

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espressocycle t1_j9u2n8r wrote

Yeah but we won't. There's absolutely nothing Philadelphia can do to reduce availability of guns. Thanks to SCOTUS there's not much any state or local government can do and even Congress' hands are tied. So, gotta think of what we can do which is to get these kids to stop shooting each other over stupid shit. Hell at this point just give them shooting classes so they can actually hit their targets without spraying the whole block in bullets.

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jbphilly t1_j9swb1w wrote

> this country has some serious cultural being-completely-inundated-with-guns issues it needs to figure out

FTFY

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crispydukes t1_j9t4bzi wrote

It’s also cultural. The teens feel they need to compete and act in violence. That’s cultural. Criminal TikTok challenges is cultural.

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Vague_Disclosure t1_j9thjk2 wrote

Social media is cultural, increasing fatherlessness and destruction of the nuclear family is cultural, inability to handle conflict without violence is cultural, zoomers having increasing rates of suicidal ideation is cultural, young men becoming increasingly isolated and single is cultural.

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jbphilly t1_j9udxoq wrote

It's true that America also has a deeply violent culture that doesn't seem to exist in most other developed countries.

But even if we had all of that, but no unfettered access to guns for literally everyone, we wouldn't have this amount of shootings.

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BigDeezerrr t1_j9sacfd wrote

It's a hopeless feeling seeing this shit every day. What is wrong with these kids? Why do people choose to do this? Makes no sense to me.

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espressocycle t1_j9u3o0i wrote

So I'll give you the answer poor Black teens have given me. Some of them just want to live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse but most of them don't want to live this way but they have no choice. If everybody has a gun you need one too. If turning the other cheek marks you as weak and invites further transgression you have to fight back to survive. If you can't trust the cops to enforce the law when someone steals from you or assaults someone you care about, you take the law into your own hands.

It's an endless cycle of violence and retribution that often spans generations. The kid holding the gun has usually lost a father, uncle, cousin or brother to gun violence and the kid he's pointing out at has too.

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notapersonaltrainer t1_j9ywo55 wrote

Do you work with these kids?

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espressocycle t1_ja0idkr wrote

Not anymore. I worked in communications for a nonprofit that had programs for foster youth so I used to interview them and I had some other interactions here and there. Not gangbangers or anything, just kids with really rough lives. They know right from wrong like anybody else but they tend to have a lot of trauma and self regulation issues and just do so much ridiculously stupid stuff that messes up their lives as a result. I don't know the answer here, but community mediators has generally been the most successful at reducing violence but it's hard to scale and easy to cut when the budget is tight. It also works best when the police make an effort to keep the same cops on the same beats and building relationships, but we know how hard that is.

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HotSeamenGG t1_j9tvva0 wrote

Prob have an unstable home life, no hope for a better future. Only thing they feel like they do have is their current rep and respect of their peers and would kill for it. Long term gains is hard to keep in sight when you could die tomorrow so they live fast, die young.

Not saying it's right, but when all your peers are in on it and there's no good role model present... I get it.

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