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Bloedbibel t1_j9kgenv wrote

Reply to comment by uptown_gargoyle in Striking Temple University graduate students overwhelming vote down proposed contract by diatriose

How do you figure?

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mortgagepants t1_j9kizvv wrote

they've been fucking around, now they're finding out.

you pay your teaching staff $4 an hour, it is only a matter of time before they can't afford to teach any more.

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Bloedbibel t1_j9kojik wrote

I misunderstood your comment. It wasn't clear who you meant to be the dunce.

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9l9bvm wrote

$4/hour? How did you calculate this? I am a TA and not even including tuition remission and benefits my per hourly rate is over $31 and I’m rounding down the calculations.

Obviously taxes are taken out but still…ya’ll really think we are out here working for $4/hr?!? Lol

Some of the misinformation that has been spread about TA wages is wild.

P.s. you could work more than 150 hours per week as a TA and still make more than $4/hour.

Edit: so the poster who spewed actual nonsense about TA pay is being upvoted but a literal Temple TA states facts about their salary and are downvoted. Clown world.

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mortgagepants t1_j9la2ga wrote

no i didn't calculate your specific hourly rate. but how many hours do you spend teaching, grading, office hours, and answering emails?

because $19,000 or $21,000 per year is pretty low so maybe you only work like 7 hours per week?

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9lan7s wrote

I didn’t ask if you calculated my specific salary. I asked how you calculated $4/hour because that is an absurdly low amount to claim Temple Employee’s make.

Like all TAs, I am contractually obligated to work 20 hrs/week. That is how I calculated my hourly rate. I make over 10k/semester. There are 16 weeks/semester. I work 20 hours/week. Point is that there is literally no TA at Temple working for $4/hour.

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thot_bryan t1_j9lj1ii wrote

Bestie it’s called exaggeration.

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9lk1z6 wrote

I can assure you people will take this as fact. The reality is even to claim we are paid minimum wage or $10-$15/hour is ridiculous.

Including my tuition remission my hourly compensation is $62.50. This is not even calculating my year of free healthcare despite not being employed by the university for 4 months of the year.

It’s literally cringe to act like we get paid below minimum wage.

Edit: this is coming from someone who has actually lived through poverty and working for minimum wage in Philly.

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DonHedger t1_j9n6aak wrote

Also lived through poverty. Grew up single parent household. Worked 70 hr/week making less than minimum wage in some cases from the age of 14 to 22, and then continued working crazy hours but for above minimum wage until I started grad school. Don't pull out poverty Olympics shit. Plenty of us have gone through it.

If you're not on board, get out of the way. Thrilled for you if you're one of the 0.01% of grad workers whose experience is a cake walk, but that's highly irregular. Most of us spend far more than that on our work. It's precisely why Temple won't even address adding grievance procedures for being overworked like we've been asking for. They know they can't afford it. The only way my compensation is $62.50 is if I use the figures Temple claims they pay me and then add another $5k.

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9n6j7m wrote

I’m not pulling “poverty Olympics.” Just pointing out that I’ve actually had to survive on poverty wages and this ain’t it.

I’m not on board, but I’m not in your way. I hope your strike is successful and you receive the higher pay you are demanding. My experience has been different and I am acting according to my experience.

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DonHedger t1_j9n9ksq wrote

I do get that. In the context in which it was brought up, it sounded like a dismissal of the folks struggling on the picket. It's pretty common for folks to accuse them of just all being lazy out of touch rich kids that have never had to work a real job and so it sounded like we were flirting into that territory and I wanted to make it known that such an accusation would be a grave mischaracterization.

I can appreciate you acknowledging the variance in experiences as well. I know a lot of really heart breaking stories among the picketers, especially from our international fellow grads who had been misled about the livability of their stipends in this city. Glad you can make it work; I've had it easier than many as well, living with a partner and getting incredibly lucky on expenses.

Regardless, though the functional compensation, the amount we can actually use to pay rent and feed ourselves, is untenable and needs to be increased substantially (Also, you illegally cut my fucking healthcare and I'll do everything in my power to make your life miserable as possible).

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9nc66e wrote

I definitely understand that different life circumstances and departmental requirements play a role in the decision to strike. My department is extremely laid back and I am the only TA I know in this department who actually works 20 hours/week. I had a different assignment last semester and I know I wasn’t putting in the full 20.

I don’t think the strikers are lazy at all. Sometimes I question how many are caught up in the hoobaloo and maybe aren’t considering how much this has the potential to destroy their academic career. Academia is really all about who you know and I hope striking does not lead to negative reputations/outcomes for students but the possibility is definitely there.

There is not a universe in which it would even be possible for me to strike. I support myself financially 100% and I am a cancer survivor that takes medication to live so I could literally die without healthcare. This implication that anyone who isn’t striking is “in the way” is incorrect and sort of what I’m standing up against. It is perfectly logical for some TAs to do the risk benefit analysis and choose not to strike and it doesn’t make them bad or immoral people.

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[deleted] t1_j9lzwtx wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9mng09 wrote

It’s not meant to be $20k/year. It’s >$20k/8 months at 20 hrs/week. The logic is that during summer you are to acquire an RA position, internship, or job because your TA position has ended. The salary is absolutely not calculated on a per year basis.

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[deleted] t1_j9mo3i2 wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9mvw57 wrote

The full TA compensation package including benefits is >$40k for 8 months of work at part time. Even though we are technically only employed by the university for 8 months, our entirely free health coverage covers the full year.

This is nowhere near what living in poverty is like because I’ve been there.

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DonHedger t1_j9n53sy wrote

How are you getting a value of over $40k in compensation? Striking 4th year COG Neuro TA here. My 12 month compensation for everything is $30,816 before taxes or student fees, and approx. $6800 of that is tuition and health insurance which won't put food in my stomach or a roof over my head.

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9n5vnf wrote

I have a semester based contract that pays >$10k/semester in wages before taxes. My tuition remission is ~$10k/semester. I do not know what the value of the full year of healthcare would be so I didn’t include it. I have 2 semester long contracts throughout the year so the total comp not including healthcare is ~$40k.

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9mrtad wrote

$30k is not below the poverty line unless it’s a single earner family of 4.

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[deleted] t1_j9mv2wm wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9mwbs5 wrote

I absolutely do not qualify for public assistance.

Edit: I know because I was kicked off public assistance when I got my TA position because my hourly and monthly income is far too high to qualify.

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[deleted] t1_j9n1qsh wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9n2b88 wrote

You were the one who even associated TA pay with the poverty line or public benefits. Our compensation is no where near that. That’s all I’m saying. I never claimed we make a ton of money or that striking TAs don’t have legit claims to higher pay. But the hysterics surrounding our pay is actually crazy considering our very high hourly rate.

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[deleted] t1_j9n2pm8 wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9n38bw wrote

I never said I make “just enough” to not qualify. In fact, I said my income was “far too high.” My case worker told me I didn’t qualify by a large amount because my hourly pay is so high.

Why do you insist on misconstruing my words? Why can’t you fathom someone living perfectly fine on $31/hour? It’s not that ridiculous…

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[deleted] t1_j9nf6r8 wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9okag1 wrote

Lol do you know how many people live on less than 30k in this city? I’ve lived in Philly for years and have never made more than 30k. It’s completely possible to live on 30k in Philly. You clearly have never been on benefits if you think 30k/year is “just enough” to not qualify for benefits. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about.

Tell me you’re upper middle class without telling me you’re upper middle class lol

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[deleted] t1_j9ol11s wrote

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9olqb9 wrote

I’m just saying your hysterics about our pay is misguided. I mean it’s pretty weird to keep insisting I am unable to survive on my pay when I am doing just fine. Like you tell me it’s impossible, while I sit here in my apartment with my pets and fully stocked fridge with groceries I paid full price for lol

I don’t live in a shitty neighborhood. In fact, I live in my favorite neighborhood in the city.

Just because you couldn’t fathom living on 30k doesn’t mean there aren’t more frugal and minimal people doing just fine. Stop insisting I’m literally not surviving lol stop the dramatics dude

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[deleted] t1_j9om25a wrote

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[deleted] t1_j9omi9n wrote

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9myg2u wrote

No, it’s that you’re not accurately describing their situation. Saying they’re below the poverty line suggests they might actually qualify for public benefits or that the poverty levels are much more generously calculated than they are.

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9mztb1 wrote

$20k for even 9 months of half-time work is the equivalent of a $53k full-time job- and if they were a full-time university employee, they’d pay FICA on their earnings and income tax on the value of the waived tuition. I don’t blame them for seeking more given the costs of living and better compensation at competing schools, but let’s not conflate them as a whole with people who are actually living below poverty level.

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[deleted] t1_j9n1yki wrote

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9nc666 wrote

They’re demanding to be treated more like employees. The reality of working half-time is that it pays less than full-time and also that it makes it easier to take coursework and study. It also rarely comes with benefits, let alone benefits of an equivalent value to tax-free tuition. And if students were leaving for full-time work, Temple would have more incentive to pay better; but it’s not that likely that they’ll choose full-time work and tens of thousands in bills and loans over half-time work, free tuition, and a smattering of loans.

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[deleted] t1_j9neoh7 wrote

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9o5qn4 wrote

Their pay rate is well over the US median income. What they’re requesting is a pay rate equivalent to an $87,000 full-time salary. They’re not demanding full-time hours; they want half-time work and full-time credit loads. Again- I don’t blame them for demanding Temple keep up with competitors but there is a huge difference between those who are paid poverty wages and those who choose to work for the school half-time so they can primarily be students. And that distinction easily saves them $12k in taxes each year, so they probably don’t want to lose it.

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[deleted] t1_j9oib79 wrote

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9okibf wrote

Of course they’re full-time students. And I’d look at adjunct pay before you assume it would cost more than $20k to hire TAs. If the math is wrong, show me where.

The minimum stipend (STEM students tend to earn more) is $19.5k for 9 months of half-time work would be $39k full-time. That would be $4,333 a month or $52k if they worked full-time all year. They don’t pay FICA on assistantships, a 7.65% tax break, or income tax on waived tuition.

They’re requesting a $32,800 minimum for half-time work for 9 months. $65,600 at full-time is $7,289 a month or $87,466 for 12 months- with the same tax break.

That pay rate is in line with and in some cases higher than the starting salary of an assistant professor who already earned their PhD and it’s well above a poverty rate. While they are making a great case that they deserve more, it’s disrespectful to compare them to people who are living in poverty unless they’re actually supporting a family of 3 or 4 on that stipend alone.

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[deleted] t1_j9olonl wrote

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Inevitable-Place9950 t1_j9p4pc8 wrote

Yes. It’s disrespectful to all the people who are working full-time at schools for lower pay rates and no tuition benefits and to people working in essential jobs barely above minimum wage to treat their plights as comparable to students getting free tuition in addition to a stipend of at least $25 an hour for part-time work. They’ve opted to work part-time to be full-time students, like thousands of undergrads do who do not get paid a higher rate for that decision. They also have the option to find full-time work and go to school part-time, or work part-time elsewhere while studying full-time. The financial outlook of those options aren’t great either for most fields.

Two things can be true: the students are justified in asking for better compensation and they’re in a much better position than people who are living in or near poverty.

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9n0oun wrote

This is what I keep trying to tell people. I support the striking TAs who they feel they are unjustly compensated. The COL has increased significantly and other schools do provide better wages. I personally am not at all unsatisfied with my earnings or working conditions so I’m not striking. I just dislike the misrepresentation that we are below poverty level.

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blergflergflurgen t1_j9mrij3 wrote

You realize that your low cost labor is being used as a substitute for real academics right? This also drives down the wages of professors and other academics. It’s systemic

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Glazed_donut29 t1_j9mvznn wrote

I don’t give a fuck about the system. I need a job, free healthcare, and my tuition paid for.

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Hanpee221b t1_j9m8n7c wrote

Here’s my two cents as a TA in the city, 21k is on the low end but at least at my university that’s decided per department and I know for a fact temple TAs of my field made more than we did. The job is for 20 hours of teaching but they include grading time and office hours. It’s not easy or enjoyable to live on but it’s doable and from what my professors have told me the way they see it is we are students first and being a TA is secondary and we should want to graduate and get out not be comfortable. We thought about unionizing but every higher up we spoke to about it said it would be a bad move because that pay is based on what the department has, and unfortunately that’s not a lot, so we’d get nothing except disdain. I’m not defending either side I’m just giving what facts and experience I have. I think a lot of people see these universities and all their money and big paychecks for admin and don’t realize how poorly the money filters down, most professors have to supplement their pay with grants and then they are expected to use that money to supplement their grad students. Admin doesn’t care, they are a business, whereas the actually people providing the services are academics.

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Girls4super t1_j9mn08o wrote

I think one issue here is that temple seems to be relying more and more on TAs to be primary professors instead of hiring actual field experts. In fact by my senior year several years back, nearly half my classes were entirely taught by TAs. They are not being compensated as a professor would be while taking on that work load. And frankly 20k is not a liveable wage in Philly. As you said, they don’t need to live comfortably, but they shouldn’t need to essentially work three jobs (ta + full time student + another job). It is also a disgrace the way the school is handling the strike. I’m fairly sure federally it’s illegal to try to punish them for striking. Not that other big corporations haven’t just taken the fines and LOLd at the law. But that doesn’t make it right.

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Hanpee221b t1_j9mx872 wrote

I agree, TAs are expected to be everything all the time without even a thanks but it can be really rewarding if you enjoy teaching. Also as someone said most times our contracts state we cannot seek other employment. I will note as someone else said there is a lot of expected privilege that makes graduate school much easier for people who have rich parents or a partner who can take on extra finances. I had a fellow grad student tell the graduate advisor he couldn’t afford tuition if they took away his remission and he was told to ask his boss for a private loan. And when you do have a majority being supplemented by parents they don’t care if others are struggling so why would they strike or complain? I hope the temple TAs get at least the bare minimum they are requesting but once the university pulls their remission they won’t last without going massively into debt.

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scatterbrainedpast t1_j9muics wrote

welcome to r/philadelphia where the moderators are clowns and the frequent posters are even dumber

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