To a bank? Not quite. Convince him that inflation will eat away the value of that cash and that he better do something with it

So these situations are difficult. It's obviously not a rational fear you're dealing with since any schmuck could walk in his house, steal the bag and leave. That's FAR more likely than fire.

Instead of trying to convince him to put it in a bank can you persuade him to let you "take care of it" for him? And then you put it in the bank?

This might sound nuts but gold and silver might be better. It's not a perfect solution obviously but metals are a little more likely to survive a house fire than paper.

My grandpa was a depression era style horder. He didn't trust banks at all. He'd put his cash away in holes in the wall and it would literally rot or rodents would eat it. It was fairly easy for my uncle's to convince him that the American dollar has no intrinsic value and was really just as bad as the banks he was avoiding. My grandpa of his own volition chose to convert his wealth horde to rare metals which could be hid in a wall without rotting away.

Wrapping the cash in tinfoil will literally bake it until it's black. Fireproof safes and bags are rated for the amount of time they can protect the contents in case of a fire. It's not the object actually catching fire that you have to worry about, it's the heat.

Honestly there is no way to get through to people like this. If you want to achieve your goals you basically have to manipulate them by feeding into whatever it is they believe. My parents are old and they don't believe in inflation no matter how I try to explain it to them. It's a government hoax to convince people to lose their money to wall street thieves. Luckily, my parents don't believe that 401k are invested in the evil stock market, they think the 401k is a company funded pension. Just.... Fuck man, at this point I take the victory wherever the suspension of disbelief happens. Good luck.

If he's open to hedging his bets, you might be able to persuade him to put a significant fraction of the money into one or more banks. Use the argument that if there's a fire or robbery, he'd only risk the money on hand, and if whatever he's afraid of regarding banks happens, he'd only lose the bit in one bank at a time.

Obviously an imperfect solution, but it'd be an improvement over what he's doing now.

As for the fireproof safe or bag, do some research to find out what parts of a house tend to be safest from fire. It's usually going to be in the basement or on a slab, and away kitchens, fireplaces, and garages where fires often start. It's possible that a fireproof safe heats up so much that paper inside it ignites even when the safe itself remains intact.

While I can't offer any advice since a safe is your best bet, the idea of someone keeping money wrapped in tinfoil is quite hilarious.

I hope you find a solution for both your sake.

I don't have that experience, but it is virtually impossible to get people over a certain age to change, but the fire senario is your best chance. The concept of finance is probably too abstract.

EDIT: Any change purchasing silver & gold would work? It is easier to protect from fire than paper & is historically a pretty decent investment. Additionally, if his anti-bank is kind of conservative anti-establishment, gold is typically preferred.

We did have an aunt that made sure to keep a substantial amount at her home, but I wouldn't call it hoarding in the same sense. It was though like a treasure hunt cleaning her home after she passed.

That said, if he is doing this for a real long time, he may have trouble spending some of the older printings due to their lack of anti-counterfeiting parts. While old currency is still legal tender, businesses do reserve the ability to have policies on accepting cash payments.

Suggestion on discretion: if it would be possible to install a floor safe in basement concrete, that would be discrete and provides excellent fire protection.

You have a lot more threats than just fire, you have mold, rodents, moisture, theft, floods, other acts of god, inflation, etc

What is his reason for not using a bank?

If the money is legitimate, taxes are not a worry.

Making big deposits won't raise red flags with the IRS, but the bank may want some proof that it's from a legitimate income.

What's his plan for using the money? Is he going to pay his mortgage, electric bill, or the doctor in cash? Is he planning to burn through it all?

I agree with the other responses here but it sounds like you've already tried all the right solutions to convice him and that no one answered your actual questions...

I did quite a bit of research when buying my own safe. What I learned is that you want one that is UL tested for 60 minutes of fire. If it isnt actually UL certified, then it probably doesn't actually work. And everything you can find easily and cheaply won't be, sadly. If you buy online you will need to pay fright, most likely, too, which can be a hassle.

If he's only storing cash, then I suppose it doesn't need to be waterproof, but consider that the fire dept is going to be using copious amounts of water to put the fire out, also.

Most tests show fireproof bags are worthless. They are only even exist because you can put flammable things in them to prevent a fire from spreading. They won't protect what's inside at all, but they do protect the rest of the house from what is inside. Regardless of what they claim on Amazon. Don't even bother.

As far as I could tell there is no cheap solution, and really even with my own high-end safe I feel like it's a gamble that it will actually work. Makes me feel better but not great.

(And no, I'm not hording cash in it, before you all start pouncing. )

Steal it. Then he’ll learn that unprotected cash is unprotected.

My father in law hoarded about $30k in cash that was discovered around his house after he died, along with some silver. He was very distrustful of banks and the government which is why he did that. We never would have been able to convince him to deposit or invest that money for that reason.

Fireproof bags or safes would certainly be an improvement. Maybe it would be worth asking if he'd buy precious metals (gold/silver) instead. Even though it's not considered to be a great investment by most, it typically at least keeps pace with inflation, would allow his to keep his wealth in his home, and would hold up better against a fire, since the melting point of both metals is higher than that of a typical house fire (and even if it does melt, the metal can still likely be recovered).

Well, his cash is already on fire and burning up at a rate of 8% a year.

If he is unwilling to let go of the cash, how about a safety deposit box? If you want it safe, you have to remove the cash from the home.

As your research has shown, fire proof bags will not protect the money if there is a fire and the house burns down.

Also, what amount are we talking about here? If it's $30k, I wouldn't even bother with any of this stuff and let him be. If it's $5 million, I would take this very seriously and push him non-stop for something safer than keeping it under the bed.

I’m dealing with this with my mother. I settled on trying to get her to buy gold. It’s still tangible. She can still see her wealth. It at least keeps up with inflation. Easier to store. She’s not totally sold yet, but getting there. I know gold is usually not a good investment strategy, but anything is better than piles of cash hidden everywhere.

Bank would be the best scenario but, if not, maybe a safe? Many are fireproof

How about just getting him a safe if he feels that way? Takes his thoughts into consideration. Obviously somewhere safer would be nice but if you’re worried and he’s stubborn, I’d say it’s a compromise.

So, i'm going to present an opposite idea.

Big ass gun safe. Like, a 12-36 (rifle) gun safe. Heavy, fire & water resistant for 60-120 minutes. He knows the combo and you do. He dies, you can open it. Avoids the wife situation, consolidates the money into a "healthy" environment; relatively theft proof (esp if bolted down); still provides him the hard cash; Available to store important documents and precious metals if he changes his mind; able to store firearms as well; it's something that can be handed down or stays with the house for value.

My mom was a bit the same way, stashed cash all over the house. I was aware, but wasn't really behind it, it was whatever though. I joined the Army and ended up having to deploy. I needed somewhere to store my guns because I didn't trust the Army's storage at the time. So I bought, and had delivered & installed a really nice big ass gun safe. I used it during deployment. It's still at my parents house. There's no value in moving it. They now use it to store documents, some precious metals and other things. I doubt they would have bought it on their own, but are more than happy to use it now. I know the combo, and I have access if needed.

The biggest risk isn't a fire, it's someone hearing that he has a huge stash of cash in his house and robbing him. Are you familiar with Truman Capote's In Cold Blood?

You can play on his paranoia by pointing out (truthfully) that any nosy person who enters his house is liable to discover his stash and blab about it to God knows who. All it takes is one desperate person overhearing a rumor for him to have a really bad day.

Would seeing a spreadsheet that shows his dollar amount with a negative 8 percent interest rate (inflation) and what it does over time (compounding). Help?

[deleted]

Ask him what he's saving up for and then explain how you wouldnt want to pay with cash anyway.

[removed]

[removed]

Assuming hes of sound mind, the only explanation i can think of for being that opposed to banks or investments is that the cash was obtained illegally

If he insists on keeping it at the house get a decoy cheep safe and put it in something like the master bedroom closet where it can be seen. Get a fire proof safe and disguise it to look like a box, label it something like Moms dishes and store it under the kitchen sink. Until recently the only reason to keep it in a bank was security and even now any physical bank isn't going to pay crap in interest. Something rated for 3 hours at 1500 degrees should be adequate.

Fire proof doesn't mean really fire proof. All things are rated for an temperature and time it will protect things in it.

[deleted]

[removed]

What about a couple of ammo boxes?

Is it banks he doesn't trust or bank accounts with their computerized controls where the balance can be wiped out with one keystroke? (Quote from an older family friend lol) If it's just the computer/digital part he doesn't like, would he use a safety deposit box? Still tangible, physical money that no one can access without him being there, boxes still use actual physical locks.

I feel like this is the one instance convincing them to buy metals would be an improvement.

Sounds to me like the paranoia that accompanies the early stages of dementia or Alzheimer's. Maybe speak to his doctor.

> does anyone have experience with a parent doing something like this?

Yes. My great-uncle hid hoards of cash in the walls, glove compartments of 100+ cars in his yard and large farm. We suspect some of the stuffing in antique dolls was once cash, and we're almost certain it was hidden in various piles of newspapers and other random household items in his floor to ceiling "only had narrow paths through" house.

He was known to be hoarding cash for decades. His gave my parents the cash for their first home in the late 1970's, around $35,000. If that is not wild enough, he delivered it to them in black plastic garbage bags. THAT had to be hoot at the closing. I cannot imagine what would happen if someone tried that today.

He was a wealthy man in the depression, though I'm not exactly sure how. He ran a secondhand store so had cash to buy people's priceless family heirlooms, most of which he kept.

> Were you able to convince them to move the money into a bank?

No, never. No bank accounts ever. It sounds like at least you know where the money is, which is good. My great uncle died and his home was cleaned out with large shovels and heavy equipment. We know there was cash in the walls because there was some visible and salvageable after it was demolished. We know it was in car glove compartments because as one was picked up with a crane, the compartment opened and mostly rotted cash fell out.

What-ever he was saving the cash for, it never made it to that destination. Instead the cash ended up as rodent food and in the hands of strangers. Oh, strangers we had to pay for the service of cleaning everything up btw.

Please ask your father what he is saving the money for? If it's for his own retirement, then a deposit box, or a gun safe, or anywhere other than in tinfoil, PLEASE.

There is no such thing as a fireproof bag. You can get fire-resistant bags and safes, but even the best consumer model safes will buy you two hours tops in a normal house fire.

It's not uncommon to have older folks stash money around the house, whether or not they trust banks. My grandad stashed money all over their little house. My grandma used wait until her purse was too heavy with coins to carry, then put it in the back of the armoire and get a new purse. Needless to say, when my grandparents ended up in the hospital at the same time, my Dad and sister had a frantic time searching high and low all over the house, luckily before the local burglars hit it while they were out. The burglars got some kitchen appliances, but not the money. And my grandparents HAD accounts at the bank, they just....stashed it.

Basically, you have two problems - the safety of the money, and the safety of your father. The money can be put in fireproof bags and stashed somewhere safe-ish around the house. But, again, burglars. God forbid he goes fishing one day and the local criminals loot the place.

Unless you can convince him to take it to the local bank, I suspect that converting it to precious metals and putting that in a fireproof safe, secured firmly somewhere ridiculous, may be the way to go, as it's sort of the go to for preppers. Lord knows my brother in law has gone down that rabbit hole a time or two. But even then a determined burglar is going to walk off with that.

[removed]

Your post has been removed because personal advice topics (including relationship advice) are off-topic here and better suited for other subreddits (rule 9).

• For general advice, consider /r/Advice.
• For relationship advice, consider /r/relationships, /r/relationship_advice, /r/JUSTNOFAMILY, or one of the subreddits in their sidebars.
• For medical advice, please talk to your primary care doctor, but /r/AskDocs may be helpful.

If you decide to post elsewhere, please read the subreddit rules before reposting. Some subreddits have strict requirements for submissions.

Submissions removed for this reason typically include one or more of these off-topic aspects:

• Content that would be better suited for /r/relationships
• Posts asking for advice on how to convince someone else to change their behavior, settling arguments, etc.
• Relationship drama not essential to a question or discussion
• Posts about suicide or violence
• Job or school selection questions

If you have questions about this removal, please message the moderators.

[removed]