Job offer and counter-offer

Submitted by peptalks93 t3_z8esly in personalfinance

I went into an interview earlier last week, not expecting to entertain an offer, but would kick myself if I didn't look. Was blown away by the offer I received compared to where I was at, even though it was salary. I put in my 3 week notice at my company and was counter offered to less than 1000 dollar difference off of the salary, paid hourly, with overtime and bonuses possible. The difference would be I would be at a beginning position at the salary job and a senior supervisor at where I am currently and a difference of 1 hour later out time from the salary position. Thoughts?

Edit: Thank you all for the insights, I have been discussing all this with my family as well and used quite a few insights here as well and have come to my decision of taking the new opportunity. Again, thanks for all the insight and different viewpoints and experiences!

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virtualchoirboy t1_iybap81 wrote

My dad was a senior corporate executive for most of his career. His advice was to never accept a counter offer. Ever. For him, a counter offer was just a way for the company to buy time to replace you.

If it were me, I'd thank the current job for the offer, point out that if you were that valuable to them they should have been paying you that already, and then take the new job.

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JonathanKuminga t1_iybdami wrote

Except don’t point that out, don’t burn the bridge. Leave on good terms. They’ll already know.

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Dandan0005 t1_iybqz07 wrote

Yep. If they really need you they’ll offer more later.

It’s better to leave and boomerang back eventually than to accept a counteroffer.

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Remarkable_Night2373 t1_iycrod4 wrote

The only time I ever went back it was after being gone for 6 months. We started talking after I was gone 3 months and I told them what would be perfect for me. They I guess kept looking for my replacement and then gave me what I wanted. I was with that for about a year before new ownership came in and wanted a different deal. I was given a severance and had an even better job within a week! It worked out for me but the only reason I went back is because I wanted hourly and the ability to work contract gigs on top of having their insurance and a reliable pay.

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Andrew5329 t1_iydzwdk wrote

Seriously, I can't believe that's the top comment.

Accepting the counter offer can sometimes make sense though. A friend of mine got a call from his previous employer offering him enough of a jump that it would be hard to turn down, but likes his new job better so he took the offer to them and they matched it. That was most of a year ago and they've been very good to him so far.

The degree to which different Employers/Roles actually care about retention varies, but those who do will go out of their way to placate people they think might be flight risks. The cost of awarding a small "market adjust" is smaller than letting the position go vacant.

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CBus-Eagle t1_iybed5e wrote

100% this. Accepting counter offers could easily breed contention with your current employer. Take the new role, but don’t burn any bridges at your current place. You never know when you may want to return.

On a side note, I’ve seen it from the other side too. One of my colleagues received a counter-offer to stay at the company we worked at. Needless to say, he told a couple of us and we were pissed that he got such a big pay raise by interviewing elsewhere. So three us went to our bosses and told them that if it takes an offer elsewhere, then that’s what we’ll do. They asked us to wait for a couple days before doing anything and ended up giving us all raises. Between that raise and my standard merit increase 4 months later, I got a 26% increase that year.

IMO, counter offers are usually bad for everyone involved. Pay the people what they are worth and if they decide to chase money elsewhere, wish them the best of luck.

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OneAdvertising9821 t1_iybf21c wrote

> 100% this. Accepting counter offers could easily breed contention with your current employer.

There are circumstances when it can make sense. If you're truely leaving for money only, and you have a good relationship with your org then it may make sense to entertain a counter offer.

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CBus-Eagle t1_iybg3xm wrote

I don’t doubt what you’re saying and it may work out sometimes. But I’ve also seen someone accept an offer and his boss (my equal) give him lower than normal raises the next 3 years. The bosses comments during our annual performance calibration and merit increase discussions was that this associate already makes more than others in his pay grade so he taking some of his merit increase and giving it to others on his team to help “level” pay.

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OneAdvertising9821 t1_iyd6fh7 wrote

My F500 company does that as a matter of policy. Your pay within the grade dictates your target merit percentage.

If you're on the high end of the range, your merit target might be 3%. If you're on the low end of the range, your merit target might be 4%.

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CBus-Eagle t1_iyd8dam wrote

Where I work, we get a bucket of money (say 3% of current salaries for your team) and the leader divides it up as they see fit. Yes, our HR system provides guidelines given each associates salary grade and performance score, but each leader has the final decision. I work for a F100 company by the way.

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OneAdvertising9821 t1_iyd913r wrote

Ours is similar, but the size of your "bucket" is in $USD and is the sumproduct of the base salary and target merit increase for each employee.

Where this gets interesting is multi-national teams. My employees in Chicago get paid a heck of a lot more than my employees in India, but it's all one bucket of funds to allocate. This creates an environment where it is much easier for low-COL employees to get large merit increases than for high-COL employees to get large merit increases.

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Penguinis t1_iyci0gb wrote

>There are circumstances when it can make sense.

Except...there isn't really. If you're unhappy enough to entertain accepting another offer, be that for money or other reasons, you'll be unhappy again in that same role eventually. Accepting a counter-offer at best simply notifies the current employer you're willing to leave when something better comes along (and why would they bother investing more company resources on an employee who is now known to be looking to leave) and at worst gives them time to find your replacement on their terms.

I've seen this scenario play out many times, all roughly the same outcome, many times in my career.

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OneAdvertising9821 t1_iycu62p wrote

Eh. I work for a F500 company. Why wouldn't someone leave if F500 Company B calls them up and offers +25% to do the same job somewhere else? That conversation is incredibly easy to have with your boss if you have a good relationship with your org.

Will they use this to replace you? I have never seen that happen. Technical roles in F500 companies are expensive to backfill.

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Penguinis t1_iyd6vnd wrote

>I work for a F500 company

As have I in the past.

​

>Will they use this to replace you? I have never seen that happen.

I have. Repeatedly.

​

>That conversation is incredibly easy to have with your boss if you have a good relationship with your org.

Your boss has a boss who also most likely has a boss. These conversations don't stop with your boss. Even if your boss doesn't think it's a big deal, chances are good someone else higher up might have an issue with it. And when the time eventually comes to have those conversations about who to keep/let go...those people with reps are some of the first ones to be brought up in those conversations.

​

>Technical roles in F500 companies are expensive to backfill.

No, not really. A lot of people want to work in them and budgets are usually larger and they can be more competitive in attracting talent. Smaller companies with smaller budgets/footprints actually tend to have a harder time attracting people due to the above mentioned issues.

Make no mistake, everyone is replaceable. F500 companies are not immune to bad management and the short comings of having people, and the baggage they come with, complicate the process.

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Puzzleheaded_Wave985 t1_iybkhq4 wrote

How did you start that conversation? I am underpaid, and should negotiate for more money, but I don’t even know how to bring that up to my boss. Do I just put a meeting on her calendar?

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sf_guest t1_iybrckm wrote

Hi, many time exec here.

The answer is you quit. Underpaid people don’t get fixed, basically ever. Out of band raises are politically costly, and in situations where you’re significantly underpaid you will never get trued up vs market.

You go to the market and get the best offer you can and then you just quit.

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likkle_supm_supm t1_iycr323 wrote

To add to that: sometimes it's not that the manager or.company is bad. I've been in situations where the company's business model is not set up to extract as much value from you as you're able to offer. Basically you're overqualified, but slightly different in the sense where the company is under-qualified in the market to keep you. Other companies can make much better use of your time.

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CBus-Eagle t1_iybptla wrote

I knew what my friend/colleague was offered in the counter offer. I walked in to my bosses office on Monday morning (counter offer was made on Friday late afternoon) and told my boss “so I guess the only way to get a decent raise around here is to start interviewing elsewhere?” He knew exactly what I was referring to and asked to me give him until Wednesday to make a decision. Wednesday morning, me and two others received pay raises consistent with the guy who got the first counter offer. The one counter offer ended costing them 4 times more.

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tossme68 t1_iybtfv7 wrote

> walked in to my bosses office on Monday morning (counter offer was made on Friday late afternoon) and told my boss “so I guess the only way to get a decent raise around here is to start interviewing elsewhere?”

And my boss said yep, if you want a decent raise.

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kelllymac t1_iyc4c9t wrote

Yes, in my experience, exactly this. I have done this a couple times. The first time, I scheduled a meeting with my boss about a month before I knew they would be having annual raise discussions and told her I loved my job and needed to make more money. Also came prepared with examples of ways I've gone above and beyond. Did the same a year later with a new boss at my annual review (our performance reviews are at the end of the year and they don't make new budget decisions until after the first of the year, so it was strategic), gave examples of my great performance and directly asked to be considered for a larger pay increase. YMMV, obviously, but second boss told me over drinks that I was like a case study in asking for raises. Got around 12% + okay bonus each time. I work in admin/operations for a large law firm.

Edit to add: beforehand, my therapist recommended I look at it as a request, not a demand. It made a world of difference in how I approached the conversation.

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sabanspank t1_iyds616 wrote

I would suggest asking for a meeting to discuss your career path and growth at the company. In the meeting you should state that you feel that you're offering a lot of value to the team, with examples and are happy with your role and the company but want to make sure that your career and compensation continues to advance. They should be able to give a definitive timeline for pay evaluations or promotion decisions. If they're not willing to do that, then you're probably not going to have much luck.

​

If you want to outright ask for more money immediately, you are putting yourself out there a bit and might want to be prepared to look elsewhere. If you just take the advancement approach, it's a more subtle way to state you're not satisfied with current pay.

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ararejul t1_iybp3pu wrote

As someone that has offered employees a counteroffer we genuinely wanted that person to stay. There was no plan to start looking for a replacement.

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sabanspank t1_iydt4qn wrote

My experience as well is that most managers are not calculating/forward looking enough to do that (start looking for a replacement). Most are plugging holes in the boat as they go along. If they want someone to stay, they just avoided a headache of replacing them and are not giving it that much thought.

Also, at any decent size company. Firing someone outside of large scale layoffs is also a huge process. They won't just out of the blue fire you without a series of programmatic steps.

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Minnow125 t1_iybfzfm wrote

That was definitely how things used to work for many years, but not anymore. Employees have alot of leverage now in many industries and company’s are struggling to find good talent.
People routinely give notice where i work, get significant counter offers to stay, and remain on as employees for a long time. They are good employees often with good client contacts and customer relations so letting them leave for $5-10K a year would be a major mistake for the company. If they are below average or average employees, counters are usually not considered.

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Penguinis t1_iycjgg1 wrote

>People routinely give notice where i work, get significant counter offers to stay, and remain on as employees for a long time.

If this is true, then there are other issues at play here. Sounds like the company is paying well below market and getting away with it. 1/2 here or there ok, but if it's routine then it is a pattern that should be a sign to all the employees that the company is clearly taking advantage of their talent. Personally not somewhere I'd be interested in working.

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tossme68 t1_iydesn0 wrote

When times are good, times are good. Sure right now unemployment is a 3% but right now the fed is actively trying to change that. Good times don't last forever and companies hate paying market value, so flex while you can but what you are seeing now is not the norm.

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nakfoor t1_iyd1owl wrote

Don't burn bridges, though. Crazy shit happens. You never know if you'll need your old job, someone's recommendation from your old job, or meet someone from your old job in a different setting.

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colinmhayes2 t1_iybo6a8 wrote

This could be true, but it could also be the case that op was underpaid and their current company knows they can’t replace them for less than the new salary. I would lean toward leaving just in case but definitely don’t know what the current company is thinking. The companies goal is always to pay the least they can to fill the role, not giving out raises is how they do that, but when push comes to shove why not pay the person who’s about to leave the same you would a new person?

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peptalks93 OP t1_iybotk6 wrote

I'm actually set to be make more than most other supervisors to my understanding at my current employer and have more seniority over most as well.

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ShadowDV t1_iycttqh wrote

being in the beginning position at the new company gives you more room to grow than being a senior supervisor at the current one. Sounds like at the current job you will likely be red-lined against future salary increases due to the bump now.

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colinmhayes2 t1_iybozfo wrote

If you think they would be able to replace you at a lower wage I would recommend you leave. If you don’t then it’s a bit more complicated

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peptalks93 OP t1_iybq1a5 wrote

I don't think they can because they have used up the pool recently on other positions.

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terpischore761 t1_iybtf30 wrote

If they fire you in 3-6 months. They now have your salary to give to someone else.

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kevmimcc t1_iyc5dhq wrote

This is not always true btw. Maybe it is most of the time but really should be case by case. I went through a situation where none of this traditional advice was correct. Sometimes in corp jobs with budgets outside of managers control etc an outside offer opens doors for counter offers that otherwise don’t exist. And if you like your team etc and know you aren’t being replaced, I don’t see the harm in staying in specific situations. But if you don’t know or are unsure then probably in general good to not take the counter

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Herefortheshow22 t1_iycmi0q wrote

My company countered generously on an offer I received a few years ago. It honestly made me fiercely loyal to them. I’m a recruiter and it happened the week of the 2020 hiring freezes. It was a show of faith in me, and it strengthened our relationship.

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simplesyndrome t1_iyb9wp2 wrote

Sounds like a better job with more progression opportunities. To make up the difference in the current role you’d have to work even more than the 1 hr a week (which is a whole ass extra week a year).

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shortbusprodigy t1_iyboqhc wrote

This x100. You already assessed it correctly, same-ish salary for an entry level versus a supervisor. Take the entry level job and it’ll be easier to work up to the next level.

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Jojomatic5000 t1_iycya21 wrote

Also, the company could have been paying that amount already but chose to under pay.

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b0w3n t1_iydtgpq wrote

And if they do that, chances are the office culture is garbage too.

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TravellingBeard t1_iydtvem wrote

Depends on context of OP's interactions in the past. If they asked management for a raise in the past but were repeatedly told no, yes, that's all on the company.

Also, this position is structurally at the limit for the current company but entry level at the new one. There maybe some inherent limitations currently that have nothing to do with being stingy with pay.

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TheBigBagBoy t1_iyd9ett wrote

salary < hourly sometimes people expect extra for nothing

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Kobens t1_iyehges wrote

That is way too broad of an assertion to simply state salary is always the lesser option.

Without taking one side or the other, my opinion would be that each has their pros and cons. Speaking as someone who has done W-2 salaried, W-2 hourly, 1099 "pre-negotiated amount for delivery of project", and 1099 hourly throughout my professional career.

In OP's case, with the limited details presented I would suggest the salaried position if anything for the opportunity for future growth. If entry level is gonna pay comparatively equal / slightly more than supervisor (makes me suspect the nature of each position is probably two completely different jobs / industries), it seems like OP is already reaching a ceiling in compensation with the current position.

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Viend t1_iydtrn5 wrote

Yup this. Titles don’t mean shit, it’s better to be under titled and move up than to be over titled with no progression.

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glokz t1_iyc5ct7 wrote

If they counter offer you that's your top value.

If you start a new job that's usually not the ceiling on that position.

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tgbst88 t1_iydanaj wrote

True facts. The flip side to this is that you will likely be the first to go in any potential layoffs.

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a_blue_ducks t1_iyddyew wrote

So true. If their counter was lower than your new offer they aren’t that serious about keeping you.

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coberh t1_iybead4 wrote

I would say move on to the new role. You current employer has had many options to pay you more in the past and didn't.

Definitely don't burn bridges on the way out - you giving 3 weeks notice should show you are being helpful. Simply say that you would like to try something different in your career.

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huskerdev t1_iybqb7z wrote

They didn’t even match your offer. That’s not a serious counter. Also sounds like they are massively underpaying you for a “senior” position.

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gammaradiation2 t1_iyd6jbc wrote

Yeah I am not sure how a senior supervisor is still hourly. A line lead, sure. A true supervisor of hourly workers has a large portion of their work in administrative tasks (setting schedules, checking attendance, etc) and may even have a role in hiring and firing (though usually that is a manager and a director still has to sign the paperwork).

People always think about overtime with hourly...but they dont think about getting their hours cut. They also dont think about the fact that when you are salary you should be able to give and take...people, go the hell home when you dont have work to do and stop distracting people that do have work to do unless its to ask them if you can pick up some work to help them.

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ShellSide t1_iydbq4a wrote

Yep If you aren't in a toxic environment that expects to hire salary workers to get 50-60hrs of work without overtime, then salary kicks ass. I was at work the day before Thanksgiving break and most people took vacation to start early. I saw all my meetings were cancelled for the day so I did a little bit more work that I needed to finish and left at like 2pm. I also more or less can show up anytime between 7-9am and no one cares. As long as I'm completing my work and not falling behind on deadlines, I'm mostly left alone which is nice lol

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gammaradiation2 t1_iydhlzq wrote

Exactly.

As an hourly worker your are paid for your time working.

As a salary worker you are paid to complete assigned tasks.

When I managed technical professionals I actively encouraged people to go home when they finished everything they could in their project queue. I'd rather promote incentive to get the work done sooner rather than drag it out to make sure they looked busy for 40hr a week. I once had a manager of hourly people complain to me about my people leaving. I asked if they could cite a recent failure to deliver, they couldn't. Likewise, when shit hit the fan, I fully expected my people to come in early, stay late, and work across hourly employee shift schedules until the problems were resolved.

I also think that good professional salary workers never really stop working. I've had some great work ideas at 9:00 PM in the shower.

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ShellSide t1_iydqs0d wrote

Haha yeah I can definitely relate to that last bit. I'll get home and be talking to my fiance about my day or things that I'm working on and go "oh wait what about doing it this way" and set a reminder on my phone to look into it the next day lol

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expiredeternity t1_iybbdb0 wrote

The counteroffer is to help THEM, not you. They will begin to look for a way to replace you eventually. HR has been put on notice that you are out there shopping around. Also consider that at the new job, you will be "starting" at this new salary, while your current job your earning potential might be at its end.

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ta_507john t1_iybfhpa wrote

That was my exact thought. Why would making a starting salary as a member of senior management be seen as a good thing?

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Logger351 t1_iybevkt wrote

Also note this isn’t always true. But what will happen is raises will be less frequent and less beneficial.

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brucecaboose t1_iydhpx9 wrote

Also not always true. A previous employer of mine just simply didn't know what sort of offers we could get at that time. I approached the owner of the company (and my boss, small company) with an offer from another company and said "I really don't want to leave, but they reached out to me to start interviewing and sent this offer. I like this place but can't pass up that difference, can we work something out?" And he looked at the offer and said "whoa, I didn't realize this is what other companies pay these days...." Then he beat the offer, and I still got our normal raises at the next review. I left there 2 years later and he told me that he knew I'd leave at some point but wanted to delay it as much as possible.

Some employers, especially small ones, are just completely clueless. Or he lied to me and knew all along but didn't want me to leave so was willing to eat the cost.

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chasingeli t1_iydpy8s wrote

Don’t sleep on this y’all; businesses that are more about handling their own than competing with rank or profit often will catch up every so often then go back to minding theirs.

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expiredeternity t1_iyey2tr wrote

That is exactly what I said. What do you call getting fewer raises and less beneficial?

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Ill_Gas8697 t1_iycz1o6 wrote

so is it bad to take the new offer to try and negotiate something better at your current company?

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mcmpearl t1_iybjhoq wrote

I am not a fan of counter offers. It means they should have been paying you more all along, but didn't.

I prefer being in a junior position that pays the same salary as a senior position. You should have more potential growth with the new employer or if necessary, the next employer that you transition to.

Other posters give even more reasons. Like they won't give you good raises at the current employer to make up for the money they are giving you in the counter offer.

Additional considerations - what made you apply to another job in the first place, relationship with current co-workers, perception of relationship with new co-workers, commute time, interest in work, which job is likely to get you closer to where you want to be in 5 yrs, stability of employers and industries, . . .

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Fair_Charity_5368 t1_iycd23c wrote

I disagree. A company is only going to pay you what you need to bring you on and increase your salary enough to keep you around. Every company could pay their employees more.

I say OP needs to do what they think is best.

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Dragonfire45 t1_iyd08ot wrote

They didn’t even match the counter offer. They stayed 1000 short purposely. No way I’d want to stay with that company. If $1000 is make or break for them, then I wouldn’t expect any raises anytime soon or for them to replace them first chance they get

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Fair_Charity_5368 t1_iydavbe wrote

Yeah ,it's odd to come short by 1 grand at that point. It's almost as if they were intentionally saying, "we won't match it."

I'm not saying it's right, but it's just business.

I don't actually know the statistics, but I would imagine 80% of people just take their 2 percent raise (really not a raise anyway when you account for inflation) and just keep working, it's only the 20 percent that leave, so mathematically it makes more sense to just rehire and retrain the small(er) percentage of people that leave.

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coolbeans31337 t1_iyd0v0w wrote

I agree with this statement. Why would a company pay more than it actually needs to as long as they think their employee is happy enough to stay?

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Fair_Charity_5368 t1_iydb2xa wrote

Yeah, even the employees that complain about it usually still stick around, and management/owners know that most people won't push it beyond that and actually leave.

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ghalta t1_iyde0r8 wrote

Salary is sort of like market value of a home.

Year after year, the tax authority relies on surveys and general data about your neighborhood to estimate the fair market value of the property. On occasion, though, your house might get a more direct valuation. Maybe you got a formal appraisal. Maybe, and this is better still, you received an offer on the property. With this new, direct, specific data, you have better numbers than the appraisal board. If they don't match, you can take that data and get your appraisal changed.

Some companies may underpay and rely on inertia to keep staff. Others may genuinely think they are paying you a fair market rate, because they rely on salary surveys and other ancillary data that is about your role and general experience level but not about you. Your job offer from somewhere else is an offer letter to buy your work, and gives your existing employer new data with which they can evaluate you specifically in the job market. In this case, I don't think them "underpaying" you before was nefarious, and a counter offer could be made with complete sincerity.

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ImpossibleJoke7456 t1_iybpkcz wrote

You’ll always be known as the person that was willing to leave, and treated as such.

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AskMeAboutMyStalker t1_iyebf62 wrote

somebody always pipes in with this & it makes me wonder what toxic ass places some of you work

if a company is making a counter offer, it's because they value the employee & don't want to see them go.

who has the time, energy & pettiness to make a counter & pay someone more just to torment them? it makes absolutely no sense.

I've been a manager for several years. when a software engineer I value puts in notice, I go in to hyperdrive trying to get a raise, bonus, promotion, whatever approved by my CEO to retain them.

I promise it has nothing to do w/ tormenting them, it's about keeping a good team together.

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Stylux t1_iyebswm wrote

>if a company is making a counter offer, it's because they value the employee & don't want to see them go.

Or it's because they can't afford to lose someone in the short term. The cost of replacement in my industry for an associate is $25k and the market is bad for employers right now.

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ImpossibleJoke7456 t1_iyf53up wrote

I wasn’t thinking about tormenting then. I was thinking that when times get tough and I have to pick between keeping someone that wants to stay and someone that tried to leave, all else being the same, I’m keeping the person that wants to be here. If money is the only thing keeping them here I’d also expect them to bring that up before hand.

I agree if you’re giving them a raise to stay and then just give them all the work others don’t want to do, that’s just going to push them out quicker and you gave them a raise for no reason.

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FunTripsToUS t1_iyf7squ wrote

> I've been a manager for several years. when a software engineer I value puts in notice, I go in to hyperdrive trying to get a raise, bonus, promotion, whatever approved by my CEO to retain them.

  1. What stopped you from doing that before they put in notice?
  2. When they did put in notice, was their reason salary?
  3. If so, why did they have to discover the gap and not you, the manager?
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Legote t1_iybk7ra wrote

Don't take the counteroffer. They will abuse you.

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truffleart t1_iyba6p4 wrote

Be careful accepting a counter-offer, the company now knows you’ve been looking and may prioritize making backup plans for your role. Also if the entry level position pays the same as the senior position, you may find it easier to get promoted/get a raise in the new job. In general less responsibility with more pay is a good place to be in!

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PipeDistinct9419 t1_iybwd9w wrote

Never ever under any circumstances take a counter unless signed by an officer as a guaranteed employment contract.

Leave to door open to come back as a boomerangs but never under any circumstances let them ‘convince you to stay’.

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Grevious47 t1_iybdnkt wrote

In general dont take counteroffers. You have labelled yourself a flight risk and if you accept the offer you will be on the high end of their payscale. With that combination they would actually be kind of dumb if they didnt look to replace you.

Not saying everytime but counteroffers can be an attempt to get you to stay until they find someone else to fill your role then lay you off rather than risk you leaving again.

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ThrillSeekingDoggo t1_iybhf51 wrote

In my opinion the only way you accept a counter offer is if there is an agreed upon severance package that is essentially unconditional presented to you in writing as part of the counter. If you stay right now, they see you as a flight risk. If you stay but they need to pay you 3, 4, 6 months pay in a lump sum to lay you off or fire you, they know that you have stability due to that, so shouldn't be a flight risk, and you know that even if they lay you off, you're good financially.

IMO without a pre-agreed upon severance deal in writing, that does not have an expiration, I wouldn't accept a counter offer. If they are willing to offer me that, I go to teh new company and present them with an offer of X% above net compensation that my current employer is now offering me to stay plus a pre-agreed upon severance deal there too. If they balk, I stay at my current spot.

Having that safety blanket would be incredible and I think it's the only way to make staying worthwhile. I would be too stressed out thinking I'm perceived as a flight risk otherwise.

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SmoreThyme t1_iybb4lp wrote

Which company has better benefits, retirement, sick/time off policies? Would one job be way more stressful compared to the other?

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Secret_Nobody_405 t1_iyccvao wrote

I have also learned that a sign to move on is if you’re looking in the first place. Ask yourself what made you apply? Something must be there driving you to look elsewhere. Take new role, new beginning, new adventure.

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mildmanneredhatter t1_iychgjy wrote

Never take the counter unless it is huge (like 2-3x)

Also it is a bad counter. They are offering you more for more, the other seems to be offering you more for the same.

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Gerald_the_sealion t1_iycr2gh wrote

Listen to everyone saying no to the counter. I’ve been offered counters multiple times. I’ve turned them down each time. When you interview elsewhere, there’s usually a reason. I was offered the roles/wishes I had BEEN ASKING FOR once I put my notice in. It means they sat on their hands and could’ve done this long ago. A counter offer is viewed as a money grab and they will look to make your life hell.

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groverclevelandd t1_iybinhs wrote

Lot of great advice in here. It’s a good feeling to know your value with your current and possible future employer. Best of luck.

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inoen0thing t1_iybjfsi wrote

Never look for a new job, put in notice and stay with a pay offer. Layoffs come and you will be the first out the door. You are a dispenseable asset as soon as you choose to stay.

It looks bad once you tell your employer you were looking to leave. Your chances of making more at the new job sooner is probably higher.

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mookene t1_iycby6h wrote

Why would anyone want to take a job that requires you to work more, have more responsibilities for less pay and with limited job growth? I would go for the entry level position but that’s just me.

However some positives at staying with your current employer would be A. you are familiar with your company, you like the people you work with, and your bosses like you and vise versa. Or more important are you happy where you are at? B. company is financially stable where job security won’t be an issue. C. You want to get supervisor / management experience to put on your resume. Money is great but not necessarily the most important… Either way, good luck OP!

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appleandcheddar t1_iycwlph wrote

This seems like a no-brainer. Your current job countered with a position at the hourly, senior level that barely matches your new jobs pay, which is salary and junior. Your current job will have you capped in this position, working overtime to get ahead, where your new job will be the same number of hours every week and the growth potential to surpass what you make at your current job.

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ZTwilight t1_iycxqm8 wrote

Why would you want to work for a company that did not value you until they knew you were ready to leave?

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overmonk t1_iydiadv wrote

First place is showing you they have been underpaying you. Will whine at review time. Take the new job. Congrats!

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DigitalPelvis t1_iydr6jd wrote

Take the new role. They weren't even able to meet your new offer, which means they still don't think you're worth what the new company thinks you're worth.

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Guelph35 t1_iydtvs7 wrote

If you are going to take the counter, get a contract in writing that if you are terminated without cause in the next 2 years they have to pay full 40 hour wages for that time.

If they agree to that, it shows they are not countering just to give them time to find a replacement, and if they don’t, you know they were only countering to give them time to find a replacement.

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RainBowSkittlz t1_iydv53n wrote

If you're starting at the higher salary, there's so much that it can be raised whereas with your current employer it sounds like you might be capped.

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project_valient t1_iyef033 wrote

I'm always wary of counter offers. If I liked my job then I wouldn't have been looking, but now since I've given a notice, even if I accept the counter and stay around, they know I was looking. Next time cuts come around, I know who's on top of that list. And the other offer may not be there when I need it.

I'd totally take the salary... you'd start lower on the totem pole, but there's no place to go but up.

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PaulBleidl t1_iyeh4de wrote

What industry/company?

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K8idk2 t1_iybfyk1 wrote

I would counter back where you are at they will probably give you another $1000 but even if not I’d stay. If they want to keep you they see you as a high potential player and that means promotion opportunities

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Ok-Confusion-2368 t1_iybualb wrote

Hourly+ overtime+ bonuses+seniority = 1000 difference don’t mean shit. Stay where you are at and accept the counter, or simply ask if they can match it. Supervisor title also goes a longer way if another job comes up.

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tefkasm t1_iyc3wi7 wrote

The long term view is take the new job because it has better growth outcomes.

If you are brand new in this role, with many senior positions ahead of you, and the old job you would be a senior and starting to approach the pay ceiling, it sounds like this is a really positive move for you.

Get past first rung on a better bigger ladder should provide many more better paying opportunities down the track.

Plus you get paid more straight off the mark.

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yamaha2000us t1_iycjdig wrote

Would you be hourly and qualify for overtime and bonus at the new position?

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evmarshall t1_iyd0wa5 wrote

Personally would take the new beginner role. If your current job believes that you could handle a supervisor role, then there’s a good chance that the new company would see this as well. But then you’d have an opportunity to advance from a higher salary when you get promoted.

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[deleted] t1_iyd4eu0 wrote

When I left my last company I asked for a 30% raise and my new company basically said "you didn't ask for enough" so they started me higher than my asking salary. Snce then they've given me raises twice a year and each time it's been 7% whereas my old company did 3-5% a year. I will never be undervalued again.

It feels scary but once you make the jump you won't have any regrets.

Go to the new company, do a killer job, and advocate for yourself.

Good luck!

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galactacaster t1_iyd9pa8 wrote

take the new role. you’ll blow the ceiling off your potential earnings this way. or, keep your cap where it is forever

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Restivethought t1_iydej69 wrote

New Role would have a higher ceiling and as a new employee will be expected less of.

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mogboard t1_iydeoe9 wrote

There was a thought from somewhere that once you hand in your notice, you are clean-slated with the company. It is best to tell them you are flatter with the counteroffer, but you already said yes to the other side, and leave gracefully. The biggest drawback of taking the current company counteroffer is that they already planned your exit strategy and just delaying you from leaving until they get a fill. You'll be a danger noodle on both sides (lost new opportunity and waiting to be axed) if you do that.

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Basedrum777 t1_iydew1u wrote

I would never trust a company that counter offered as it means they could've been paying you that before but chose not to. They knew your value and didn't care.

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Tatswithgats t1_iydf2fp wrote

Counter offer the original offer of the other company. Normally you can get another 5% or so out of it. If not, negotiate vacation days or 401k vesting, or work from home benefits.

You can always say your company offered a match, and you're interested in moving, but you just would like to see the compensation match the difference in travel. Leave it open for negotiation though. Say you're excited for the position, think you'll work well with the team, etc.

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt t1_iydhwl7 wrote

Taking a counter-offer is a huge gamble.

The company now knows you are looking, and willing, to leave. They may just be counter-offering to keep you on until they can hire and train your replacement.

Every situation is different but the general consensus is not to accept a counter-offer unless it comes with a guarantee of employment for X months. And then you need to plan on being let go after X months.

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Megs1205 t1_iydq5q9 wrote

Go back to company one, see if they can offer you anymore, and check if you get benefits (stock options, health etc)

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Samurai_Stewie t1_iydqf3n wrote

Salary is a quality of life benefit over hourly that you won’t value until you experience it, especially if your work schedule is somewhat flexible. Yes, you can work more hours and make more money now in your old job, but you may be able to work fewer hours and not stress about clocking in/out or getting overly taxed for your OT hours. In your new spare time you can work a second job if you really want to, but you can also decompress or go to school.

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fromKCtoAZ t1_iydwj92 wrote

I think this very dependent on the field and company you work for. I had three jobs in a row over a five year period where I worked 60-80 hour weeks as a salaried position.

One of those companies had salaried positions track time and another one wanted us to, but I convinced the owner otherwise.

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Samurai_Stewie t1_iye2gm8 wrote

Of course it’s dependent on the industry and company, which is why I said OP “may be able to work fewer hours.” I’m comparing their current OT job to a salary one, which will be an entry level position which will 99.9% of the time not be required or expected to work a great deal more than 40 hours a week.

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tangokilothefirst t1_iydw5wr wrote

If you're super happy where you are, like your boss and their boss, like the team you work with, and enjoy the work, and the only reason you're considering leaving is the money, and the money is the only promise being made in the counteroffer, then it may be worth staying put.

I don't know how old you are, or how long you've been in your job, or if you think of this job as a career in a specific field, or what your long-term goals are. Money isn't everything. It's not even the most important thing in a job.

Write out a list of your personal goals for the next 1, 5, & 10 years. Do you want to retire soon? Or are you at the beginning of a career and you'd like to move into management within a year or three? Do you live to work, or work to live?

Paycheck aside, which job gives you better tools and opportunities to achieve your goals?

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[deleted] t1_iydx398 wrote

I've learned over the years with this old saying: "The Grass ain't always greener on the other side." Sounds to me that your current employer values you and your worth plus also what you bring to the table....But really only YOU can make that decision.

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fromKCtoAZ t1_iydxje4 wrote

There’s a lot of folks here that would leave and never look back.

Since the new position is entry level, are the expectations in line with what you are looking for? I never recommend someone go from hourly to salary especially with such a small difference in pay.

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TheExpatLife t1_iye0tyl wrote

Agree with most commenters. I can’t really imagine a scenario where I would go all the way through an interview process, land the role, negotiate the package, accept, submit my notice, and then take a counter offer.

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PinkySneaky77 t1_iye2gfc wrote

Stay only if money was the issue. If there was other BS going on the money will only temporarily pacify you. Also, make sure they won’t skip out on a merit increase later if you take this bump (I’ve seen that A LOT: “well you’re at the top of your range now so we didn’t have room to give you a merit increase”).

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Redcarborundum t1_iye5fy3 wrote

Never accept a counter offer. The only exception is if they offer you a new position with higher pay, i.e. a promotion. Then you can consider it.

If it’s just more money, decline. They should have valued you properly to begin with, and not wait until you get a different offer.

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peptalks93 OP t1_iye62l1 wrote

It is technically a promotion what they offered.

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Redcarborundum t1_iyeayd4 wrote

In this particular case I would still go for the salaried position. Not having to clock in and clock out alone is worth it.

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btiddy519 t1_iye6hn8 wrote

People who accept counters are just giving the company time to hire a replacement for the flight risk. Go after the salary and get the inevitable promotions with even higher salaries at the new company as you demonstrate value.

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SmallBoxInAnotherBox t1_iye9yo1 wrote

i think its weird your current company counter offered within a 1000 dollars but not fully to the new offer. that seems sorta cheap to me you know what i mean? idk how i feel about that...

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PaintMysterious717 t1_iyegv7b wrote

Sounds like the company you interviewed at values what you bring to the table proactively and your current company was more than happy to undervalue you until they had to react.

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freecain t1_iyemjhv wrote

I tend to prefer salaried to hourly. There's a lot of fuckery that can go on with hourly positions if they ever hit financial straights where you could find your "salary" reduced by 25%. Bonuses and overtime aren't guaranteed. Depending on the type of job, it can also cause problems if you need to put in a little extra time to fix a fuckup you did - there are times I've been salaried and really thankful I didn't have to explain exactly what I was doing hour to hour.

I would be a bit concerned about taking a promotion at a similar pay to a lower position. I would assume the promotion means more work. It will also be that much harder to make more money in the future - since there is one less rung on the ladder to climb up. The other place might give you the ability to work your way up. Also, you threatened to leave to get the promotion - if this was done eagerly, it could show you were valued... but if it was begrudgingly, you might not be in good standing anymore - so read the room. I would question either way why this position wasn't made available earlier to you - you know, before you thought about leaving.

In the end though, I think it comes down to what you think of the job. After all, if you like the people or work style or job or company more - you are probably going to be more successful at the job - and that will translate to more money down the road.

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RepublicIndependent3 t1_iyex8h9 wrote

So you’re current job increased your pay to basically the same as your new/potential company assuming you work 2080 hours a year? I’d think with OT you’d potentially far exceed what you’ve been offered from the new gig. Is there opportunity to grow at your current company? If you’re used to hourly pay with OT, salary might always seem like a much bigger number, but when you divide it by hours work it can be painful

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peptalks93 OP t1_iyezgea wrote

It would be comparable, but with less responsibility and a new beginning at the new job. It would be less without the overtime, but with the possibility of getting a promotion up to the supervisor position I currently have.

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BigRedKetoGirl t1_iyf89d5 wrote

Take the new job. Chances are that your current job just wants to get someone else in place before they let you go. They know you are already looking elsewhere. Don't put yourself in a bad position just to help them out.

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Amandine_2012 t1_iyfae4q wrote

Was the only reason you were leaving financial? Ask yourself where you would be happiest, then consider the money

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BadAssBrianH t1_iyd02ss wrote

Take the other job, and stick with it over the next four years it's going to be a very bumpy ride in the current anti business atmosphere. Many companies will be doing mass layoffs come 2025 when the corporate tax rate reverts .It's profit over people every time, and always will be.

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Nita_taco t1_iybfudc wrote

Interesting, nice problem to have! If you decide to stay, assure them you were only looking because you wanted/needed more money and now that you have it you're really happy. Then try to prove it with being positive at work. I think this might help them not think of you as a flight risk.

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[deleted] t1_iyba2rd wrote

[deleted]

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tMeepo t1_iybdj1f wrote

If a beginning position at the new job pays more than a senior position at the current job, I would assume the career progression to pay much better in future

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WardStradlater t1_iybfel5 wrote

I guess, but it depends on the field and company, my last company had zero progression ability because management were all in their position for years and the max annual raise was 2%. So there was no room for growth at all. That’s why I asked about the growth and raises everything.

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peptalks93 OP t1_iybgo0o wrote

That is something I still am unsure on. I know that there is no level between starting and supervisor at the new company and I don't know how long it will take.

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Bigdonkey512 t1_iybihoe wrote

I just did this, was offered a salary paid higher with better perks and benefits, I gave my notice and was immediately told “well you know I will pay you more right” as in he wanted me to tell him how much I should make. Do not take the counter, the relationship is damaged and not repairable until you and your current soon to be ex employer has time to come down from you leaving for a better offer, once they have time to realize your value and see benefit to having you there, however long that takes.

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