Submitted by financelg t3_yguln9 in personalfinance
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Submitted by financelg t3_yguln9 in personalfinance
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Yeah my 401K is anything but “fully funded” 😞
edit: so basically I just want to start doing whatever gets me the highest returns now short of me sitting in front of stock tickers all day, because I’m definitely not educated or experienced as a seller
> whatever gets me the highest returns now
Why, are you planning on cashing out your 401k before retirement? Broad index funds or TDF, done. It's a retirement account not a gambling pot.
If you look at my last linked post I stated that I’m no longer entertaining emptying my 401K
But you're looking for the "highest returns now". Don't chase returns, nothing recommended for long-term retirement savings has high returns at the moment.
Of course you have to make the right choice for you, but my opinion is you shouldn’t start diving into high risk investments until you have a really thorough understanding of the market and it’s risks/rewards. 401ks and IRAs are examples of investment vehicles that are safer and easier to understand.
Also the expected value of money allocated to a 401k or IRA is always going to be higher than money invested through most other avenues simply due to the diversification available and the tax advantages. It's as close to a guaranteed "good" future return as you can get outside of social security.
Most stocks that pay a high dividend have a very high chance of having that dividend cut. It's a pretty good way to lose money.
So if I DO buy stock in large part for the divided payments, buy say, Coca Cola or something?
A company that is a “dependable”, blue chip stock that’s less likely to do this?
edit: because I figured that a lot of companies, especially if they’re not clear leaders in their respective industries can probably “talk a big game” with things like dividends and wave money around... but if their earnings reports are ever on the rocks the dividends are probably the first things to go
Why are you making this so complicated instead of just buying broad index funds?
The wiki is years of aggregated real world advice
KO dividend yield is 2.96%. You can get 4.4% from a 1 year CD. Still want to buy Coke?
Don't make your investment decisions based on what is promising the highest return. There is no such thing as high yield or high return without high risk.
ibonds dont talk at all and Im not sure where you are getting your information.
You seem almost manic in you approach here wanting instant results or immediate feedback...thats dangerous when it comes to finance. Investing is a longterm game. Nothing wrong with ibonds, they are good at what they are for...which is a hedge against inflation for short-term savings you intend to use for a purchase. They are not really a longterm investment and they certainly arent better longterm than a tax-advantaged brokerage account like a 401k...not because they are "bad" but because that is not what they are for.
If you try to drive a racecar in the snow and then complain about the car...not sure that is the fault of the car.
As for dividends I think you are miaunderstanding their use and value as well. Dividends are distributions. If you have $2000 in a dividend fund and that fund distributes to you a 5% dividend you would recieve $100 and your fund value would be $1900. Its basically the same as just withdrawing $100.
Dividend funds can grow in addition to distributing a dividend but the dividend itself is just a distribution and isnt a return in and of itself. A 6% dividend is not the same as a 6% return.
Why is there no mention anywhere in your post about putting this money into low-cost index funds? That is the #1 investment recommendation from this sub. Index funds, invested over a long period of time, ensure that you will achieve the returns of the US stock market.
If what you’re describing is the same as what I’ve been instructed to do with Principal, the guys who handle my company’s 401k
basically “Tell them to invest your money into a mutual fund”
I’m already in the process of instructing them to do exactly that. Are you suggesting I have a separate amount that I give to a mutual fund like Fidelity or something on my OWN?
You should 110% have an IRA, either Traditional or Roth, that you invest in on your own and outside of your employment based investments (401k or HSA etc).
An IRA will have similarly valued tax advantages (the same in the case of a tIRA) to a 401k while almost universally having lower fees than a 401k.
The best allocation is to max a 401k up to the match from your employer, max an HSA if you have one, and then fully fund your flavor of IRA. Only then does it makes sense to max your 401k, and this is due to fees (mostly).
Take a look at this for how to think about investing....
You may find these links helpful:
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Read the wiki. It covers the basics including what you should invest in. If you don't know what you're doing (and also even if you do), then buying and holding using a "three fund" portfolio is almost always the best choice when it comes to maximizing returns over the long term.
Here's a link to the PF Wiki for helpful guides and information.
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I have read the wiki, but I’m looking more for “real world” advice
That wiki is the best "real world" advice I have ever seen for personal finance. What exactly do you think is missing?
Okay you need to stop taking investment advice from 20-something year old youtubers who recently discovered the existance of dividends and think they are some magic way of generating "passive income" a phrase that is constantly misused.
I will do my best to explain what dividends actually are.
So as you likely understand when you buy stock you are buying shares of a company and when you buy shares in a fund that fund manager is distributing that among stock buys in companies or other assets.
As companies make profits they have a choice about what to do with that profit. They can reinvest it in themselves to grow the company...buy more equipment, hire more people etc...or they could distribute that profit to their shareholders (a distribution). The value of the company translates directly to its share value. If a company decides to invest all of its profits into itself then all of the profits are included in the share value. If the company decides to distribute them to share holders in the form of a dividend then those profits are NOT included in the share value and therefore the share value does not increase.
People seem to think dividends are on top of growth, they are not...growth and dividends are just two ways of handling total return.
Small companies tend to be growth focused, they tend to put all their monry into themselves and rarely issue a dividend. They have the highest chance og return (picture investing in Microsoft when it was a startup) but also the highest risk. Huge companies that have been around a long time tend to have lrss they can do to grow so they are more likely to issue dividends (think like AT&T) because if they reinvest all of their profits into thrmselves it wont lead to that much growth and thus it could be seen by shareholders as wasteful. These companies also tend to be fairly low risk (as an aggregate, puttimg all your money in 1 company would still be risky).
Dividend funds tend to just have their holdings be these companies that issue their profits as dividends to shareholders. There are also funds like QYLD that artificially generate dividends with covered calls but not going to get into that.
So what does this mean. If AT&T srock price is $100 anf it sees 10% return in its value and issues a 5% dividend what that would mean is that effectively its return would make the stock price $110 if all of that was growth but with the 5% dividend the stock price ends up being $105 and the shareholders get a check for that 5% in the form of a distribution...a dividend. If you own shares of AT&T outside of a tax-sheltered account like a 401k then that dividend is considered to be income and is taxed accordingly. Thats not a good thing. If instead your investment was in a company that also saw 10% return but did not issue a dividend you would still have made the same return but it would all be realized in the share value and not taxed. This is why seeking out dividends for "passive income" as a way of making money does not make sense.
Compabies that issue dividends tend to tey to keep theie dividend "yield" steady, so yhat investors who want that income stream can rely on it. What that means though is they will issue a dividend even if the share value goes doen which will just drive the share value down even further. If AT&T share value was $100 and in the year they saw a negative 10% return their stock woukd be $90 a share...but they would also still issue a 5% dividend which would mean it would drop even further to $85 a share.
This is the issue. Yes you csn find funds that regulaely distribute a 6% dividend yield...but you have to understand that value is coming from the value of the funds holdings. Its basically like withdrawing money from your bank every month for some extra cash. Is that income?
So what are dividends good for? Well they are just a part of a companies overall return and a lot of solid performing large bluechip type companies issue dividends ad part of their value to shareholders...and thats fine.
But they arent something to try to maximize or seek out. If you are a multimillionaire it might make sense to invest more heavily in a broad base of relatively solid companies that ossue dividends and use those dividends as a source of income at the cost if having less growth (but also less risk) But as an invester who is just starting choosing dividend yielding funds and compabies exclusively is a terrible strategy that will majoy hamstring the growth potential of your investmebts especially if your holdings are not tax sheltered.
I feel like the problem is your goals are not aligned with what the sub will recommend. This is long-term stuff, you do not try and mazimize returns. You park your money in something safe that does well on average. AKA ETFs/index funds and bonds.
Really, at the end of the day, you need to ask yourself what your risk tolerance is and what you can afford to lose. Cause playing this game, especially in such a precarious market, seems like a good way to be left holding the bag.
A dividend is basically a forced sale of a stock. If a bank gives you 6% interest on your deposit you have your initial deposit plus your 6% yearly interest. With a dividend you end up with the stock price minus the dividend.
> $2,000. Buy around 100 or so shares of Union Bankshares, Inc. (one of the "high dividend" stocks from this Yahoo article) for example. It says the quarterly yield on these shares amounts to around 6.41%
Let me illustrate. You invest $2000 stock and then they pay out 6.5% dividend ($130). Now you have $1870 stock and $130 of dividend. By default meaning you end up with $2000 stock exactly where you started, but it gets better! Now you have pay taxes on the $130 dividend.
I'm not saying to avoid stocks that pay dividend, it just isn't something you should seek out.
There's nothing magical about dividends. Companies paying high dividends do so at the expense of growth which means that their stock prices tend to go up slower than the rest of the stock market. And as an investor, there's no reason to favor one type of return over another. Dividends and capital gains are both taxed at the same rate and neither is inherently better for passive income. You're mostly just trading one type of growth for another, but you may be less diversified if you just buy high dividend stocks or high dividend funds.
An important advantage of getting more of your returns in the form of capital gains is that you decide when to sell and take capital gains while you're forced to pay taxes frequently with dividends. High dividend funds are less tax-efficient because more of your return is being taxed along the way.
Taking8ackMonday t1_iuajvvt wrote
My friend, I think you misinterpreted the advice in the other thread. Don’t cash out your 401k to move into I bonds. BUT they are not a bad strategy if you have fully funded your 401k, IRA, and have an emergency fund.