Submitted by psychothumbs t3_10m4aoz in nyc
newestindustry t1_j614ly9 wrote
Reply to comment by OrangeSlimeSoda in Mayor Adams unveils proposal to convert Midtown offices into apartments by psychothumbs
>If office building owners don't want their property used for residential, what will the City do? Seize the property? That will mire the City in years of costly litigation, and by the time it's settled, new housing buildings could be halfway done.
If the office buildings are empty, as they are now, why wouldn't the entities who own them want to allow for conversions to residential? Do you think they're going to wait around forever for office tenants who aren't coming?
OrangeSlimeSoda t1_j615jpd wrote
We're currently seeing carrot-and-stick attempts by office tenants to compel their employees back into the office. Office occupancy was at about 47% at the end of 2022, and probably won't go above 60%. What we will likely see is re-negotiated leases to the benefit of commercial tenants. We might see some of that space converted to other uses - yoga studios, medical offices, classrooms, etc.
There's a bunch of reasons why office landlords won't want their offices converted to residential. First, the cost of converting them into a dorm-like situation would offset the benefits. Second, their lenders might bring a lawsuit against them depending on what their mortgage says. Third, there's a bajillion liability issues that comes with it, in particular ensuring the physical safety of tenants (I can't imagine many single women would feel safe living like that). Fourth, there's a far greater likelihood of damage being done to the building if it's used for residential purposes. Fifth, existing commercial tenants won't like sharing the building with residents living in what are effectively dorms.
As I mentioned in another comment, trying to compel office landlords to convert will be an expensive and time consuming process. I think that that energy and cost is better served in an aggressive re-zoning effort, which is one of the major impediments to building affordable housing in the City.
newestindustry t1_j617n4v wrote
>There's a bunch of reasons why office landlords won't want their offices converted to residential.
All of these hinge on the offices being converted into dorms, which I have never seen anyone but you suggest will happen.
>As I mentioned in another comment, trying to compel office landlords to convert will be an expensive and time consuming process.
I think letting your office space sit empty while you look for nonexistent tenants is also an expensive and time consuming process.
OrangeSlimeSoda t1_j619f7d wrote
> All of these hinge on the offices being converted into dorms, which I have never seen anyone but you suggest will happen.
Because the cost of gut-renovating office spaces into fully-function housing units is cost-prohibitive. Merely from a physical standpoint, it would entail ripping down and re-erecting walls, re-wiring things, upgrading plumbing, providing gas, re-configuring things to work around elevator banks, etc. Turning them into dorms is the most cost-effective and expedient solution for a landlord.
>I think letting your office space sit empty while you look for nonexistent tenants is also an expensive and time consuming process.
The office landlords really don't have a choice. They are bound by legal obligations to their lenders, municipal regulations, and zoning laws to only allow their spaces for offices. It would be more expensive to convert the office space into a residential unit than to try to flip it to a different kind of office use.
newestindustry t1_j61bisc wrote
OK well I'm gonna be real with you, I think you kind of just made this whole dorm thing up. NYC has been converting office to residential in Lower Manhattan for decades now, none of them are dorms.
Needs0471 t1_j620vvv wrote
Yeah, this whole sub thread is just bullshit. It’s not like the task force that wrote the plan is ignorant of the very obvious challenges.
Evening_Presence_927 t1_j64dimr wrote
This is the same administration that wants to forcibly hospitalize homeless people without expanding outpatient care. I wouldn’t put it past them to be that stupid.
Revolio_ClockbergJr t1_j61monk wrote
> Merely from a physical standpoint, it would entail ripping down and re-erecting walls, re-wiring things, upgrading plumbing, providing gas, re-configuring things to work around elevator banks
These are all things they would do anyway. What else does “conversion” mean, if not these tasks?
Skip gas, do electric. Plumbing would be weird but nothing that hasn’t been done before.
Yes, dorms are more cost effective… until they sit empty like the offices.
Evening_Presence_927 t1_j64drl2 wrote
I think they’re saying it would take far more resources doing that than simply tearing the building down and doing it from scratch. Office buildings are built to hold, well, offices, not apartments.
LikesBallsDeep t1_j61hab6 wrote
Nobody's saying gut renos are cheap but.. have you seen the price of getting ANYTHING new built in NYC in general?
Very expensive can still be better than absurdly, astronomically expensive for a new build.
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