$11 billion

It’s a beautiful station and connects MNRR to LIRR

>The walk from the lower-level train platforms at Grand Central Madison to the 4/5/6 subway platform at Grand Central took 11 minutes and 20 seconds.
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>Compare that to the subway trip from the 4/5/6 subway platforms at Grand Central to the LIRR platforms at Penn Station, which requires a ride on the Times Square shuttle and a transfer to the 1, 2 or 3 train. That trip took 13 minutes.

For those who want to save a click.

The videos of the walk to the platforms kind of blew my mind. It’s like an airport.

Yeah but the long islanders will see less homeless people so its worth it

and twenty years

This is not apples to apples. Just to get off the LIRR then get to the subway platform takes time. They just ignore this

If the lirr and metro north just shared tracks, then it wouldn't have been as far to the train platform and would have saved billions of dollars and would of been open years ago

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.

It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.

Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.

Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.

We can’t change the past. The project had some major mistakes. When gateway and SAS is built they need to avoid it. Lol the MTA isn’t involved in gateway so we will see if it’s even worse with delays and costs

This could have been a great idea since the tunnel was built in the 70's under the F train; but the MTA is actually just the agency that can borrow money with 6 companies under it, including MNR / LIRR. As I understand it, the railroads get federal funding separately and if LIRR joined the MNR tracks into GCT, they would have been forced to split federal funding (and lose money). So LIRR was forced to build a whole new station under GCT, hence the walk. Such a shame and wasted opportunity for petty politics :/

Does it stink of urine yet?

Someone needs to do a side by side video of the escalator here versus the Hudson Yards 7 station, because the internet is telling me this one is only 8 seconds longer to ride.

Yeah but shiny new toy is shiny and new

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It’s also not accurate. It’s a 5 minute walk, not 12-15 minutes.

I can't find a video in the article posted, I'd love to see it tho, do you have a link for me?

The fact that our 3 (or 4) major regional rail systems are still behaving like they're private operators in competition instead of a single unified system is a disgrace

Build the T-REX already you cowards!

Not to mention it completely fucks Brooklyn commuters, lengthening commutes while eliminating one seat rides from points east of Jamaica

>Compare that to the subway trip from the 4/5/6 subway platforms at Grand Central to the LIRR platforms at Penn Station, which requires a ride on the Times Square shuttle and a transfer to the 1, 2 or 3 train. That trip took 13 minutes.

I call bullshit.

No chance you make that trip from 4/5/6 at GCT to an LIRR platform at Penn in 13 minutes. Even if every train departure aligns perfectly for you (which it won't) I don't think it can be done.

EDIT, 6 Days later: I tried it myself and it CAN BE DONE. Pretty easily in fact. I timed it, and it was almost exactly 10 minutes. (Granted, did I hit the 2 train and the shuttle almost perfectly. But even if I had waited a minute or two for each, I still would have been well under 13 minutes.

15?!?

There’s one in the story someone posted yesterday.

Yeah here's the thing...if I have to get to Grand Central from Forest Hills...I'm riding the escalator. I'm certainly not taking the 1,2,3 to Times Square 7th Ave and walking to the shuttle.

This is New York post-esque

Anytime I see estimated walk times when getting directions I always beat the time by half. I know I tend to walk fast, but even when I'm going at a stroll pace (for me) I'm still faster than the directions. I can only imagine they go with a very conservative number for the slowest walkers among us who are still physically able to make the walk.

Nothing is good. Everything sucks. Always mad.

Also the reverse, sometimes it takes 5 minutes just to exit the platform at Penn due to overcrowding. Add another 5 minutes to walk an entire city block to the 1/2/3 if you are at the front of the train.

Another unspoken benefit is if there are people who used to make that cross town trip who are now boarding at Grand Central, now there's a greater chance at getting a seat during peak rush hour at Penn. though I imagine the mad dash once platforms are announced will forever and always be a thing.

How does it completely fuck Brooklyn commuters?

People just want to shit on everything. God forbid anything be celebrated.

There’s a bunch posted to r/nycrail

Well the more likely alternative is taking the E to the 7 at JH or 6 at Lex/53

The only problem with the 7 at Jackson Heights Roosevelt is its the local only there. Which I always forget. Because it seems like it should be an express stop.

Its shuttle service that does non-timed connections and direct trips from locations east of jamaica have been all but completely eliminated. The shuttle service is to jamaica track 12 as well, no longer are transfers cross platform, you have to go up the escalator

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Gonna call bullshit on this.

Best case compared to average case. Really not a fair comparison here.

For real, this is bullshit. You have to walk to the other platform and also wait for the train to arrive.

15 stories underground? I wonder if they built it that deep underground with intentions for it being a emergency bomb shelter in case nuclear war ever break out.

agreed

A-effing-men

How about inclement weather which happens all the time and having to traverse that. It is a major plus to have this. Just enjoy it versus trying to find waste in projects because you’ll find it everywhere

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Up an escalator oh lawddd

50% of the planet and the country is probably older than you and less healthy and able bodied than you. Bragging about your run time is not relevant to providing millions of people with an algorithmically calculated average walking speed.

Some people have disabilities or have to carry luggage. Not to mention braving the elements. Have some compassion, this is a reduction in service for tens of thousands of commuters

I guess this guy should apologize for being healthy and not eating his weight in chips every day.

I go from my home station to Jamaica, switch to the Hunterspoint Ave train, switch to the #7 and get to Grand Central. And let all those idiots swarm to something that will take less than 5 more minutes.

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41.9 % of Americans are Obese. Unless you are over 65 or unfortunately have non weight related illness, walking should not be an issue.

I went there today to check it out. While it is beautiful, it is not a time saver as there won't be an express train on my line. It will take forever to ascend the 17 story escalator, which gave me a bit of vertigo to be honest. I can't believe this took this long and so much money all for something that will create a bottleneck of people trying to emerge at the street level. Oh and it is a long walk to get into GCT to get street level.

I disagree. It is REALLY far down. If they did this and timed it, that is WITHOUT people. Also, the escalators are narrow so I don't know if you can even walk up it while people are standing to the right. It will be a shit show. I will keep using Penn.

Thank you!

I can leave my office, which is a 5 mins walk from GC at 5:55 and comfortably make my 6:16 NJ Transit train

I was there today. It is really a walk from the LIRR platforms to MetroNorth and even further to the subways.

The shuttle schedule is temporary for the soft opening and will only last several weeks.

No, you’re confusing the Grand Central Shuttle with the changed Brooklyn service. The changed Brooklyn service eliminates direct trains from Long Island to Brooklyn, having 99% originate at Jamaica

Stop.

Arguing over wether it’s 11 minutes, 13 or 5 is irrelevant, when you consider it costs 12 Billion to do this. It was a major waste of funds that could have been put to much better use elsewhere in the city.

You're right. My bad.

Not a super big deal, just have to go over a couple platforms. I don’t know why you are super hung up on this

Where is it in relation to the 7 platform? Could have built a walkway and escalator that goes down from the 7 platform so people don't have to go all the up way to street level and back down to transfer.

Lol ok.

It's one year of the police budget. I'm not stressing it.

I have (post-covid) POTS, asthma, and I constantly hurt one of my legs. I still walk faster than the algorithm says I should (including quick breaks to make sure I don't faint if the POTS is particularly bad or if there are stairs involved). New Yorkers just generally walk faster than people from other cities in the country (and most cities in the world).

Except that most of the major employers in midtown are within walking distance of grand central…

The concourse goes north from 42nd to 48th AND you have a long steep escalator ride down. I don’t know if they could make it smaller or shorter considering it needs tracks and walk space for the 160000 people who would potentially use it.

I also think its about transfers. less transfers less risk when you're running late

…50%?

This doesn't account for risk of delays. The stairs are electric. You're already where you want to be. Maybe do something so that folks can get out of GC easier from the dining area?

I don’t think it was possible for them the share tracks. They built a new tunnel under the East River and could complete the project with minimal disruption because it was built so far underground.

Exactly. This reduces risks of delays.

Why is everyone twerking so hard for this station?

Both things could be true at the same time, i.e., it's probably needed but also does not save any significant commute time and was grossly over budget.

MULTIPLE sources have stated its a damn trek to get from the track level to the upper levels where you get the subway or Metro North (and this is when it's not even fully operational aka less people) and everyone just seems to want to discount it

This will help alleviate crowding at Penn, surrounding streets, and connecting subways.

Not necessarily. There will be less direct service leaving from Penn during rush hour once the new schedules go into effect. Most people will want to get one of the direct trains to their destination without having to transfer at Jamaica so more demand for those trains. Also trains will be shorter as in no more 12 cars due to not enough equipment to service both Grand Central and Penn until new train cars are delivered. I think those who still need to use Penn will be unhappy once the full service changes go into effect next month but Im hopeful it wont be that bad.

When the 7 train was built out in the 1910's, they never envisioned the IND developing their own subway line under Queens Blvd and a transfer being built there.

Quality of life is better

I disagree. They overengineered the fuck out of this project because MNRR did not want to share tracks with LIRR - hence you have a station 15 stories below ground that takes forever to reach ground level. Could you imagine an elevated station 15 stories up? Throw in the fact that it was over a decade late and went more than 3x its original budget and you have a project that deserves criticism. Is it great that society wants to invest in public transit infrastructure? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean projects like this should be immune to criticism.

$12.7 billion

It's about a 15 minute walk from security to gate B55 at Terminal 4 in JFK, but Delta provides a shuttle bus all the way out there. Taking almost the same amount time to trek between the street and a train station every day is mind boggling

“Use the time on the escalator to meditate” is such an Albany take

> meditation time

LOL

Nah it don't take 13 min to get to grand central by subway and shuttle lol from Penn. First need to exit the train then walk thru Penn...sometimes getting off the train and walking up the stairs to get off the platform takes several minutes... next to the subway turnstile ...that takes time then walk to the subway platform, Only if extremely lucky the subway arrives as soon as you enter the platform, walk thru time sq sta and the shuttle is waiting for you as soon as you sit down it leaves. Exit the shuttle and walk to grand central ...No subway or shuttle delays also that would be a great day. I would def take an escalator ride over subway/shuttle from penn

Omg yeah I had to take those for work every day….they are insane and feel extremely steep

> MNRR did not want to share tracks with LIRR

Grand Central has so much extra capacity because there are no intercity rail services from there rn. This feudalism between the MNRR and the LIRR makes no sense at all.

Is that really why the place is so freakin deep? Bc the MNRR wants the LIRR nowhere near their tracks?

Ok? I'm sure 10/10 people are taking this over having to change at Times Square, especially during rush hour.

Baloney. As a longtime commuter would take me at least 30 min to get between grand central and penn LIRR. This article assumes there’s always an empty train right there on the platform waiting for you to hop on and no human traffic in the corridors.

Part of the problem was the steep grades , the LIRR tunnel was below the F train which is a triple-decker tube once it reaches Manhattan. So to have it go from 63rd street to 45th Street and that would have been to steep for US spec'd trains. I'm sure with some modifications an International spec'd train could have handled that. But the FRA required these outrageously heavy trains up until 10yrs ago...so long as the line has PTC installed they can use the European designed trains which are also cheaper to buy. Unfortunately you still see many status quo agencies like the MTA or NJT sticking with the old regulations vs agencies down south or out west going with the new regulations.

Any subway line, rail line, roadway, that’s built with only one express that’s meant to alternate directions is a bad idea.

I know this doesn’t really apply to your comment but it’s close enough to bring out my frustration.

I thought that MN can’t share tracks because they’re at capacity, they have no tracks to spare. I’ve never heard that GCT has “so much extra capacity”

I literally work next to GC and this saves me 5-10 minutes. But now i dont have to walk from penn. So it’s not worth it

This. Any penny used to actually help the people is a victory compared to how it’s usually used just for the wealthiest elites.

Haaaaaa. What a fkn mess. Also if there is ever a fire there or the escaltors malfunction it is pure disaster.

I think I saw from a video it's under existing subway tracks already underground

What is the over/under on the first time the escalator is closed for maintenance?

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It's doable, I think. 2-minute ride time on the Shuttle, 2-minute ride time on the 1/2/3 (from Times Sq to Penn Station). That leaves 9 minutes of walking/transfer/waiting time. Bearing in mind the Shuttle departs pretty much every 2-3 minutes, and you can take any 1/2/3 train at Times Square, waiting time is probably shorter than you might think.

I think 13 minutes might be a little optimistic, but not much.

It does suck, but less than 7% of LIRR riders are going to Brooklyn.

Will this do anything to relieve some of the crowding on the E train? It has been terrible.

Yeah that grand central to Penn connection is really irritating. There’s no way to do it quickly or easily.

The trek from Penn to gct is ten times more annoying

I've done S -> 1/2/3 -> Penn -> NJT platform in 10 minutes with perfect alignment. The 3 minute walk from 4/5/6 is feasible but improbable. I'd say it's a 1 out of 50 or 100 shot - highly unlikely, but not nil.

I'm so invested in this now. I kinda want to go and time out both trips myself.

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The current gateway plan calls for a dead-end station for NJT

bad bot

The plan needs to be reimagined. Step 1 kick out the tenant above penn station and rebuild the station. I don’t believe the will power exists to evict Dolan. The station needs to be rebuilt as through station to maximize movement.

GCT covers Westchester and some of CT, no commercial, no intercity, and has more platforms than any other railroad station in the world.

I could have told you that

People are going places other than gc area after getting off the LIRR.

I agree

Was this not realized when they planned this? They spent billions for micro improvements schedule wise. Why even go through with it. Yes the tunnel was provisioned under 63 but other than that it was never sensible. I think with this, second ave subway, London Elizabeth line, infrastructure planners should realize that extremely deep level stations are not an improvement if the time saving are lost getting in and out of the station.

Although it seems like public transport and infrastructure will never go back in the hand of competent people as politicians hold all the control and funding.

Good luck! It needs to be rush hour train frequency with no delays, and picking the appropriate car in each train for the fastest transfer to the next line.

GCT literally has the most tracks of any train station in the world.

It's not that hard to imagine. You are guessing. I bullshit your bullshit. Give it a shot and see for yourself.

The station being so deep is definitely a pity, but people still have more options than they did before.

Getting from LIRR to the 4/5/6 is hardly the only benefit of LIRR@GCT, not sure why that's the only measurememt people are talking about. Inconvenient access to the 4/5/6 within Grand Central is hardly a new concept. It has always sucked ass getting to the 4/5/6, let alone transferring to the 7.

Agreed, the mad dash you describe is here to stay and a uniquely Penn Station problem. It is just too cramped to have it any other way in that bitch ass basement. That's the magic of Grand Central - it's built to circulate people a million times better. To hell with these whiny arguments about how deep the tracks are at GCT. Sure it's a pity but I'm moving on with my life.

If somehow they could fundamentally spread things out better at Penn, that would be pretty dope. I see the way they've blown out the area that used to be McDonald's on the 7th Ave side of Penn though and I'm starting to wonder if they're trying to make that more of an open space. I think there is a case for some low key optimism for what they're trying to do at Penn Station, just this one's opinion.

Saw a tiktok today where it literally took the woman 6 min to get from street to platform. Not sure why it took the author of this article twice as long

I wish I didn’t see that. Now I’ll dream of something that’ll never happen.

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God people fuckkng complain about everything it gets old

They had a train to Montreal for a while.

But idk if that was temporary due to the Moynihan stuff. Either way, Idt Amtrak services to Canada have resumed since the pandemic.

From Penn...

There were trains to Montreal that left out of GCT for a while.

Also - looks like it’s resuming soon. The train to Toronto already resumed, per my Googling.

you know, everything infra-wise that gets built was an RPA proposal at some point. they never talk about that, or how there are these grand, inspiring plans for the region they're cribbing from. the tri(bi)-boro, east side access, gateway, the metro-north expansion in the east bronx, etc, all part of the RPA's set of transit related suggestions going back decades

So who knows, maybe we'll get an overpriced, watered-down version of this sometime before 2070