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dark10043 t1_j29lb5r wrote

Reply to comment by im_not_bovvered in 'Drag Story Hour' protest draws passionate crowds outside Queens library by seejordan3

While i have nothing against drag queens and drag shows in general, I don’t understand the benefit of them reading books for children. What are you trying to teach? That its okay to dress up like a woman? I just don’t understand.

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brighttobrighter t1_j29mfng wrote

Generally the purpose of LQBTQ story hours is to teach kids that LGBTQ people are people just like them, and that it's just as okay to grow up and be who they are, whether that's a straight person or a gay person or a cisgender person or a trans person.

It's a very popular message with parents who love and support their children unconditionally and want their children to grow up knowing that, and an enraging message for parents who would rather send their queer kids to conversion therapy.

EDIT: Come to think of it, they're also probably a response to the pearl-clutching "how am I supposed to explain two men kissing to my children?!?!" wailing from the 00's.

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sassbayc t1_j29sfmp wrote

Lol a man dressing as a woman has literally nothing to do with being gay.

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dark10043 t1_j29n1fs wrote

But isnt the whole thing about drag queen is that you act up as much as possible to be comedic? Do you know any LGBTQ person who dresses up like drags and talk and act like them on any given day? I don’t.

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brighttobrighter t1_j29naub wrote

That's because drag queens are performers. Clowns don't wear the big shoes and rubber noses to bed, either. ;P

As to why pick drag queens in particular to share that message? Probably for the same reason we had Bill Nye the science guy teach kids about science back in the 90's. Kids like fun! And so do their parents. :)

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sassbayc t1_j29opnp wrote

the wikipedia page for the organization literally says their mission is indoctrination lmao

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brighttobrighter t1_j29oz7v wrote

Oh my, that is troubling. Can you share a link to the source so we can see the quote?

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sassbayc t1_j29p4ji wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour

The program strives to "instill the imagination and play of gender fluidity of childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models"

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brighttobrighter t1_j29pzvh wrote

That's a quote from a ThinkProgess article about Straight Pride? It says so in the Wiki source list. Also the quote seems to be from a Facebook page called Resist Marxism talking about the story hour, not a quote from the organization itself.

The actual organization says:

"In our original 45-minute Drag Story Hour (DSH) program designed for children ages 3-8, local drag performers trained by children’s librarians read picture books that touch on themes of diversity and difference, sing songs, and do craft activities. In learning about drag as a form of dress-up and play, children learn to see beyond the pink and blue gender binary and celebrate difference in themselves and others."

https://www.dshnyc.org/about

So yeah, seems pretty tame to me. Genuinely a little concerned about what you find objectionable here, but that's your business.

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sassbayc t1_j29qc5m wrote

that's literally a different way to say the same thing.

key quote: "children learn to see beyond the pink and blue gender binary"

thats indoctrination.

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brighttobrighter t1_j29qict wrote

I don't think you're going to find that your definition of indoctrination matches up with the majority of people's definition. Anyway, I think we've gotten as far as we'll get in this conversation and I'd like to go enjoy the nice weather. Take care!

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sassbayc t1_j29r62d wrote

...you literally suggested that the drag queens reading were only a thing because it's light and fun when the non-profit's own website directly says their mission is to "teach" kids to question gender norms.

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lilitalybabe t1_j2a0gz5 wrote

Exposing children to the fact that there are more than two genders and teaching them that those people exist and should be treated with respect is not indoctrination.

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brighttobrighter t1_j29rfs2 wrote

You're being silly. I compared it to Bill Nye teaching kids about science in one of my first posts. But I really am out of time to debate this for the day, so I hope you find somebody else to butt heads with. :)

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sassbayc t1_j29s295 wrote

Bill Nye only wants to teach kids about science. They don't have some ulterior motive of indoctrinating kids that's unrelated to whatever story they might be reading.

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Spittinglama t1_j2a5fni wrote

Yeah and religious Sunday schools are also indoctrination by that definition. It's a matter of what you're indoctrinating kids into. Acceptance? Not feeling pressured into gender binary because that's what society pushes at large? Wonderful! Indoctrinating kids into existential guilt because they might have less conventional attractions? Awful.

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Menacing_Quokka t1_j2aeuaa wrote

But if I call it indoctrination it sounds scary and nefarious. And not just...raising a kid.

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hecramsey t1_j2el1xi wrote

no it isnt ,and you are wrong about the facts presented. when I was taught to drive I wasn't indoctrinated I was educated.

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dark10043 t1_j29nyfr wrote

Fair point. I just don’t think this event is is appropriate for kids prior to highschool at least.

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ukudancer t1_j29r9kg wrote

That's for their parents to decide.

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dark10043 t1_j29s195 wrote

They are protesting it as we speak?

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Zombie_farts t1_j2abssn wrote

Why protest when they could just ... not send their kids to it? These are opt in events

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panda12291 t1_j2ahjrv wrote

Not the ones who brought their kids to it... There are a bunch of angry adults protesting who could have just chosen to not bring their children to these events and let others live their lives. They're the ones forcing these conversations on everyone else.

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TakingADumpRightNow t1_j29pmtj wrote

At some point, you need to ask yourself if your views on the subject are at odds with the genera consensus, and if so, why.

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Pylos425BC t1_j2a185b wrote

Do you really think there’s a settled, “general consensus” on this?

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downonthesecond t1_j2cnpsg wrote

>Generally the purpose of LQBTQ story hours is to teach kids that LGBTQ people are people just like them, and that it's just as okay to grow up and be who they are, whether that's a straight person or a gay person or a cisgender person or a trans person.

They should start reading Chuck Tingle and other books that represent their community.

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im_not_bovvered t1_j2a7bgv wrote

It’s a fun way for kids to pay attention to a book. Added benefit is it exposes kids to diversity in a way that shows them something new. But like a clown, etc., it is a performance. You’re overthinking it.

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Elizasol t1_j2e5w7h wrote

The drag shows that mostly exist in our society are very sexual in nature. I support LGBTQ+ and their rights, but I can't see why we can't accomplish the things you mentioned without ignoring some of the valid concerns people have

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im_not_bovvered t1_j2f7zzt wrote

They don’t have to be. Drag is not inherently sexual. Literally it’s just men dressing as women.

If you have concerns, don’t send your kids. Simple. Other parents should be allowed to raise non bigoted children the way they would like.

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GarysCrispLettuce t1_j2fo1mg wrote

This is just horseshit. Drag artistry runs the full spectrum from traditional kids' pantomime and storytelling to sassy standup comedy all the way to the racier performances you seem obsessed with. And - here's where I want you to follow me very closely - there is no nudity. For obvious reasons.

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Elizasol t1_j2fso8n wrote

You're projecting. And on top of that you're a liar, most drag performances traditionally have a sexual component

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StrngBrew t1_j29lwlo wrote

> what are you trying to teach?

Whatever is in the book they’re reading would be the most obvious answer

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dark10043 t1_j29mid0 wrote

No- the book can be read by anyone and would be the same lesson. they said the reason for drag story time is for kids to have a role model. What role model are they talking about?

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panda12291 t1_j2ah3xq wrote

What is the point of any event for children? Why do we have circuses where men dress up in white face paint and makeup and do silly things? Why is there a children's show with puppets, or a big purple dinosaur? Kids like silly things, and this is a way of engaging and entertaining them, perhaps with the added benefit of making them a bit less hostile to different lifestyles. The better question is why are so many people so angry about this?

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Sea_Phrase_Loch t1_j2chgqr wrote

It’s presumably just something fun for the kids and the drag queens + while drag queens don’t inherently have anything to do with being LGBT (although they’re culturally associated), it signals acceptance of diversity and progressive values (ex. that boys can wear dresses too, that it’s okay to express yourself however you want + drag queens are good examples for healthy self-confidence)

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GarysCrispLettuce t1_j2fooww wrote

You do realize that not all professional children's storytellers and performers are drag artists, right? Some of them happen to be drag artists. Which is understandable, since drag queens are often flamboyant, entertaining people who love dressing up and putting on a show. Why shouldn't some of them make a living entertaining children like anyone else? Plus it's a good way of exposing kids to the idea that all kinds of people exist and that within certain obvious common sense boundaries, it's fine.

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