Submitted by HamsterCultural3081 t3_zk1prc in nyc
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Comments
DaniChicago t1_izxcevz wrote
Owl boxes or bird houses for owls are being used in some places. Owls love to eat mice/rats.
paisleycatperson t1_izxjlzb wrote
The one special owl in Central Park died from eating poisoned mice though.
Really nothing will work the symptom (rodents) except addressing the source (trash).
Wowzlul t1_izyvvuk wrote
> The one special owl in Central Park died
Barry? She was hit by a truck.
Was there another special owl that also got killed? Oh no...
paisleycatperson t1_izyx56u wrote
She had a bellyfull of rat poison.
Scrapdog115 t1_izxa8xf wrote
The rats would have the cat heads on stakes by the end of the week.
Hopebloats t1_izxasxh wrote
Anecdotal (I have assisted in some TNR in Brooklyn): many feral cats do serve as the local rat czar on the block, and residents see them as helpful and want them returned to continue the good work.
HamsterCultural3081 OP t1_izxd8qi wrote
I have to disagree with you slightly. Due to you working with the actual TNR people your going to come into some bias and be approached mainly bu the people who support you and the program. The vast majority of people in any neighborhood (if polled correctly), overwhelmingly support releasing the cats elsewhere. Cats at the end of the day are an invasive species and also a vector species that transmit numerous diseases includong several outbreaks withing the NYC animal care centers that they cover up with the cdc on a yearly basis.
Hopebloats t1_izxeswq wrote
Totally possible… my role has only been to translate the intentions of the TNR program within minority neighborhoods /blocks, and it’s an FAQ (“will you please return the cat”).
edit: actually, how you think I could better contextualize/ inform here? I perform translations occasionally on-call in situations where TNR is trying to get access somewhere. I generally try to get out of their way quickly but wouldn’t mind taking some more time to explain something helpful if they’re willing to listen.
paisleycatperson t1_izxgzux wrote
In most colonies I TNR, the people want to know the cat will be safe if it is adopted, as with kittens or friendlies, or returned to them to keep up the mouse patrol/ to just be a community buddy they collectively care for.
You get a few insane people who just want the cats gone, but if a culture includes feeding cats, removing the specific cat the insane hater wants gone, does nothing because another will take its place when the higher volume of people keep feeding, throwing chicken out the window, or with poor trash practices that attracted the cat to begin with.
kiwi3p t1_izxb9de wrote
This is actually an excellent idea. The neighborhood I lived in in Lisbon had one of the worst rat problems in the city. They rolled out "Patrulha Gato (Cat Patrol)", which unleashed several feral cats and also meant more frequent garbage pickups. The rat population plummeted and real estate values in the area or flying up.
TheTeenageOldman t1_izz6gma wrote
> and also meant more frequent garbage pickups.
You buried the lead.
ironichaos t1_izxcjak wrote
Wasn’t there a story on here a few months ago where the local bodega had a cat they let someone borrow to do just that and then someone stole/lost it?
paisleycatperson t1_izxgbbx wrote
Bodega cats eat mice and passively deter rats.
There was a bodega cat in Park Slope that got rescue care (neuter and vaccine) and was supposed to be kept in, the bodega did not keep up with that, and a regular scooped it up when it was outside for the nth time. The cat was returned. It still goes out to the street.
HamsterCultural3081 OP t1_izxcq4v wrote
Nobody owns feral cats. Can't steal something nobody owns.
[deleted] t1_izxhpbx wrote
Cats are a great deterrence to rat populations - it’s why I encourage anyone who lives here to have a cat in their home. And from my anecdotal experience, areas with TNR cat colonies keeps a lot of the rodents away.
But I hesitate to get colonies across the city because outdoor cats are awful for biodiversity.
Also, as long as our trash collection systems remain as they currently are, we’re gonna have rats in the streets.
Wowzlul t1_izyuxki wrote
Second this. I never have problems with mice or rats in my places. Friends who get cats have them clear up almost immediately. I know right away if mice are getting in because the little beast kills 'em, and I never find their droppings around.
If you get a cat that enjoys killing bugs as well then you've got it made.
[deleted] t1_izywi5x wrote
It’s never fun to find a roach in your place, but at least the few times I have, the cat was proudly sitting above its corpse.
Wowzlul t1_izyxr3x wrote
My cat is a fantastic mouser but will do nothing in the face of roaches. She sees them but just isn't interested.
I have to kill the roaches. And then there's inevitable placement of a bunch of bait in the nooks and crannies that follows, the purging of corrugated cardboard and placement of all food into plastic tupperware, the cleaning out of every nook in the cabinets, the sealing and re-sealing of trim cracks and plumbing holes...and inevitably another roach eventually shows up because the disgusting downstairs neighbors won't stop piling up literal garbage in their apartment.
If your neighbors don't give a shit about roaches well then you're just fucked.
Sorry just bitching.
[deleted] t1_izyy7cd wrote
Based on your comment there’s a non-zero chance we might be neighbors, this is the exact ritual I go through after I get rid of a roach lol. The diatomaceous earth does wonders to help kill the next ones that get through.
Wowzlul t1_izyybug wrote
> The diatomaceous earth does wonders to help kill the next ones that get through.
I've done that too! Put it behind all the electrical panels and everything! And the damn things keep coming because the neighbors are just really nasty! Won't even put their garbage in the cans and keep trashing the backyard lol
putney t1_izxi7yx wrote
The bigger problem is that you can't use natural hunters--felines, birds of prey--when you have set up poisonous bait for the rats. You end up killing rats, cats, and owls/hawks.
squall571 t1_izxibcn wrote
I wish NYC was a cat city like Istanbul
paisleycatperson t1_izxkrlx wrote
Come to sunset park or borough park, it is!
36chamberstreet t1_izyuycm wrote
If someone ran for mayor on a platform of requiring trash cans with lids I would vote for them.
It’s mind boggling that we all just throw out food every night in thing plastic bags and the throw our hands up and say “jeez what’s with all these rats?!”
My_Name_ISNULL t1_izxifnw wrote
So, just to play devils advocate, what exactly is the problem with rats? Yes, i know they are around, that's a pain, but what health issue do they really cause?
Leptospirosis? Rarely found in nyc. Hantavirus? Also rarely found here. LCMV, Tularemia? Nope, nope. Salmonella? Okay, fine, semi-common, but not from the rats. I'm open to research saying otherwise, but I don't see rats as that huge of a health concern.
At any rate, beyond that, sounds like you have more an issue with people feeding cats in your area than anything else, and this whole rat thing is just your way of round-about bitching about them.
paisleycatperson t1_izxleft wrote
Rats do tear open trash, but that's really a trash problem more than a rat problem imo.
rioht t1_izy7tqb wrote
Lepto killed a bunch of dogs in Brooklyn last year. Hantavirus can go airborne from feces. (Clean up rat/mice feces with care, folks).
If the health stuff doesn't bother you, then the property damage numbers should. It can cost thousands and thousands to repair sidewalk joists when they burrow underneath. Rats often will go into cars during the winter as well and will go in there and start chewing up wires.
I don't hate rats - on the contrary, they're pretty cool creatures. But you can't ignore them from either a public health and/or public spaces standpoint.
My_Name_ISNULL t1_izy9sau wrote
You're saying it can, while ignoring the fact that it doesnt. Otherwise we'd see case numbers representing such, which we dont - "In New York State, there have been five identified cases of hantavirus since 1993" with an additional 1 case, bringing total to 6 as per 2020.
https://www.health.ny.gov/press/releases/2018/2018-06-22_suspected_hantavirus.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/surveillance/index.html
The dog thing sucked, but if I recall that was just from 1 main dog run in williamsburg, hardly a health emergency. And i say this as a dog owner. Property damage is beyond my original statement; it's not a public health issue.
rioht t1_izybchh wrote
https://greenpointers.com/2022/01/19/leptospirosis-outbreak-confirmed-in-williamsburg/
According to the above, it was between two and four. And look, is that a ton of dogs? No, but the issue here was that a spot in McCarren had bad drainage and the water became a vector for lepto which spread to dogs. This is a (relatively) easy fix that could've saved some pups from getting sick and dying.
As much as you may want to limit the scope of your original argument/statement - fine. But you shouldn't ignore property damage, because in the end we as taxpayers end up paying for it.
You don't have to take it from me, but I got trained by Bobby Corrigan. I encourage you to read up anything he's written, as well as any stuff by Matt Frye and Tim Best, who are all fantastic scientists who practice IPM. (Integrated Pest Management).
My_Name_ISNULL t1_izyeakd wrote
Ah, more than 1, my mistake. Thanks for the link.
Beyond that, I think it's 2 separate things, health and property concerns. Property damage I'll definitely give you, and the estimate could be much lower than actual damage, but I'm trying to focus on the health side as most of the time we see anything on here about rats it's framed in matters of health. And my point is that if you look into it the concern is a bit overblown.
Looking into lepto, 2021 shows around 13 [human] cases, 2020 had around 5. Thinking about that in reference to nyc pop of around 8.5 million, that's a 0.000153 and 0.000059 %. These numbers are so low they aren't even rounding errors. Although to be fair, the increase between 20/21 could be a matter of concern.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/han/advisory/2021/leptospirosis-cases-increase.pdf
Wowzlul t1_izz88no wrote
Very well I will open the door and let the rats wash over me.
Come and get it boys
[deleted] t1_izxpf4g wrote
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12stTales t1_izxzq04 wrote
Cats would all die from rat poison flowing up the food chain
KaiDaiz t1_izyda83 wrote
cats kills a bunch of birds so we end up with another issue
TheTeenageOldman t1_izz6lec wrote
If it were pigeons I'd be fine with it.
Jaudition t1_izygdx8 wrote
nyc-ModTeam t1_j001fna wrote
Sorry, we’ll have to remove this post as it’s had 0 karma for several hours now, in order to clean up the front page. I hope you understand.
HamsterCultural3081 OP t1_izxa1v3 wrote
I nominate myself as the new rat czar.
paisleycatperson t1_izxft7d wrote
Cats deter rats passively but cats don't regularly hunt adult rats.
Cat colonies would not survive in subways because the food sources are better in other safer places.
Also crazy cat ladies do not dump cats around homes. Bad owners dump cats around homes and crazy cat people come fix the problem for you.
The real truth is cats and rats are attracted to some of the same food sources, trash. Rats have lots of other options as well, which is how cats can carve or a territory from rats, but nothing will make a real difference until the city fixes the trash.
Rich neighborhoods dont have feral cat colonies because they pay more to handle their trash.