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bustedbuddha t1_iykug1t wrote

Reply to comment by cheradenine66 in Morgan Stanley finally lures bankers back to the office 5 days a week by smallint

Yes, and importantly it will be the workers who are talented enough to fine other jobs easily.

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muu411 t1_iylg2y8 wrote

As someone who worked on Wall Street, I can tell you that will not be the case for the vast majority of people who go to IB. It’s an absolutely brutal job, that you would never choose for work-life balance - you choose it for, 1) Pay, and 2) exit opps. The kind of people willing to take on that lifestyle generally aren’t going to turn down more prestigious banks offering better pay/exits just to work from home twice a week.

It’s also worth noting that because you work so much, most of your friends in the city end up being your co-workers - particularly important when you’re a more junior employee who may be single/doesn’t have a family. Work from home as a banker was fucking miserable, because you still work 15 hours a day, but also don’t have the chance to at least have SOME social interaction with friends during the week. RTO is not as big of a deal for a lot of people as it may seem…

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utahnow t1_iym8cbp wrote

As someone who’s worked on WS… and still does: the only people who care about “prestige” are the junior ones in their resume building phase. Oddly, big “prestigious” banks know that and actually sometimes pay LESS than their smaller counterparts. “ we are Goldman everybody wants to work for us anyway we don’t need to pay top dollar”. After 2-3-4 years whatever people care about the money and the lifestyle over a brand name. The cushiest opportunities are found in smaller shops in fact.

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Ame_No_Uzume t1_iymlba2 wrote

The funny irony is hearing their executives complain about the turnover, especially amongst their traders. They end up paying more in recruitment, consulting, onboarding, hiring and training in the long run.

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muu411 t1_iymabxv wrote

I agree with you, but my point is that when it comes to recruiting that’s a lot more relevant to juniors, and significantly more people working on Wall Street are more junior employees (we can’t all make MD). In an industry where most people are only going to stay for a few years before moving on, the prestige is important. I’m not sure how much RTO will really impact people’s decisions long-term - the same people who want to kill themselves to make MD at a top bulge bracket or EB will probably continue to do so regardless, and a lot of the people who would prefer more wfh flexibility are the ones who would have looked to move to a smaller shop anyway.

I also wonder if the point about more prestigious banks paying less is slowly but surely starting to change (though current market conditions and the impact on big tech, etc may slow this down). It’s interesting you use Goldman as an example, given they just raised base salaries to move towards the top of the street, and paid out bonuses largely on par with even elite boutiques this year…

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utahnow t1_iymoyzq wrote

I agree and i actually do believe that juniors in NYC should be in the office. I am an MD and i know i couldn’t have made it by working from home. And why would you even freaking want to as a young person in NYC living in a tiny apartment? give me my desk and my ergonomic office chair over a couch and a coffee table in a studio apartment. Get out there, meet people, work hard, play harder, this is what your 20ies are for 😀

But it’s the seniors who are the rainmakers, it is my job to bring in business and I do not need to sit in the office for that and if a company is gonna try and make me, I am taking my clients and my team and I am leaving. Or I am leaving the industry - exit opportunities at senior levels are abundant and attractive, you can size them up to your desired lifestyle. So this is how it’s gonna be. Those with options will exercise them.

Edit: and GS funny enough just gave its traders bonus warning despite having a good year. This is what i am talking about. BB sucks for senior people

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Grass8989 t1_iykvxul wrote

With the job market softening, that may not be the case going forward.

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ilikedthismovie t1_iykxkcg wrote

The job market isn't softening for finance

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bustedbuddha t1_iyl02lz wrote

No that only means that a smaller percentage of the top of your company can walk. But your best can walk. Even in a down market a profitable professional is profitable. So you lost the top 1% of your workforce instead of top 3% of your workforce... you've still lost your best.

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edit: This is also why I'm against corporate actions that push people to "self select" to layoff, your best go fastest, and you get stuck with the workers who don't have other options.

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ilikedthismovie t1_iynn6oh wrote

My point is more that investment bankers/people in PE will almost assuredly be able to find new jobs. I agree tho that putting on crappy return to the office policies basically just pushes out the highest performing people who can get another job fastest.

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spoil_of_the_cities t1_iykyulg wrote

What if some of the talented people aren't workshy

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ohpeekaboob t1_iymco48 wrote

"workshy" is some top tier corpo bootlicking speak lmao

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bustedbuddha t1_iykzv62 wrote

Then they can still work hard in a way that's better for them and costs them less money. Or just work for someone who's not going to put the screws to them for no reason.

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If people working from home didn't work these companies wouldn't have done so well during the Pandemic. Part of the reason they can't really argue en masse to get workers back is because it's obviously a waste of time and money.

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olli_bombastico t1_iymaa3j wrote

It's naive to correlate IB performance to WFH solely during a first-of-its-kind QE period.

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Monkeyavelli t1_iylf65w wrote

Mayor Adams, with respect, working from home is still working, sir. How do you not understand this after two years?

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