most likely plaster and lath. with such construction, if you try to nail or drill, you'll crack the plaster and it will spall and get larger and larger.

Sounds like plaster. My walls are the same. Old plaster sags and crumbles and can look like brittle concrete. Backing is probably a combo of wood lath and mesh. Stud finders don't work well or at all, but they are spaced evenly. Find one and then measure.

My go-to method in an old apartment was extra long toggle bolts due to the extra thickness of the plaster and wood. Generally walls will be 1/2-5/8 inch thick but with all that material it can be over an inch thick..

Best bet is to try to find the studs or just put a toggle bolt through the layers. If you're hanging something extra heavy find studs.

Plaster, which is usually backed with lathe, literally a wall of thin wood slats that the plaster adheres to, which is why your stud finder is going crazy. What you’re hearing is plaster and lathe cracking off, which isn’t that big of a deal.

You’ll probably need to use a drill and find some screws that work well with plaster. I’d check with a hardware store, they’ll know exactly what you need.

Plaster is notoriously hard to break through. Honestly if you don’t want to deal with it, command strips are a much better option and tend to work better with plaster than on drywall even (since it can’t peel the paper off the drywall).

Based on stud finder plaster and lath.

If you are really lucky though you have some old school pyrobar, fire resistant gypsum block. Let me tell you how fun that is. https://oldstructures.nyc/2016/01/25/before-gyp-board/

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Use plastic anchors and make sure you tape over where you're making the hole, it'll keep the wall from falling apart when youre screwing it in.

Do you have a ring of molding going around the room about one foot from the top of the wall? I forget what this molding is called, but its designed to receive a little hook so you can hang pantings and such from a cable.

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If you are trying to hang shelves or something; its incredibly difficult to do with lathe and plaster walls. A experienced person is likely the only way to get it done. Also, check your lease, it probably says you can't hang things due to the lathe and plaster.

Now I recall...picture rail moulding

Haha welcome to prewar living. You’ll want to use anchors. I’ve hung 55” TVs using them and have had no issues.

It is a pain in the ass though.

As others have mentioned your walls and plaster and wood lath. The wood lath is nailed to the wood studs and then the plaster base coat pushed onto the wood lath. The plaster that is pushed in between the lath strips are called keys. This is what holds the plaster onto the wall. The finish coats of plaster are then applied on top of that base coat. When you've been drilling through the walls you're basically breaking away the plaster keys. This is the crumbing sound you hear.

Your Stud finder is going to pickup all of the lath so you won't have much success with that tool.

If what you're hanging is not to heavy then I would recommend using toggle bolts or snap toggles. These don't expand into the plaster which would cause cracking. The toggles sandwich the wall and pull from the backside of the wall which is much more stronger.

When drilling through the plaster it would be best to use a masonry drill bit, this will give you a clean hole through the plaster. The masonry bit may not drill through the wood so you may need to switch to a standard wood drill bit.

When you buy your toggle bolts the box should tell you what size drill bit to use.

In the event you do find a stud then you can just drill into it with a regular wood screw. Make sure you account for the plaster thickness when you buy the screws.

If you're hanging a curtain rod near a window opening you may run into brick or other masonry behind the plaster. If this is the case you could use a plastic wall anchor made for masonry. Use a masonry drill bit to make the hole, then insert the anchor and then the screw. You could chose to add some construction adhesive to strengthen it.

Hope this helps.

I have plaster walls and hang heavy shit on them no problem. No stud finder or anything. Been 3+ years and no cracks or anything producing. Maybe I’m a cowboy but the stuff holds up well.

Could also be plaster and mesh. All the same, takes mounts made for such walls. You can confirm with the super and then ask at a hardware store for mounts rated to go into such materials.

You might also have asbestos. Fine as long as you don't disturb it but worth considering if you'll be doing lots of drilling.

How would I know?

I joke with my wife that our TV will still be standing even if our building collapses. I put so many goddamn heavy-duty anchors into my wall because I wasn't able to find more than one stud. +3 years later and the TV is snug against the wall, yolo

What kind of anchors did you use?

And what kind of mount?

You have to get it tested by an iinspector so best bet since something like 70% of buildings in NYC have it is take some basic precautions when drilling/cutting/scraping (anything that can create small particles), wear a n95 mask and use a vacuum with a good filter to clean up dust as you make it.

That's the whole reason they have picture rails. To avoid putting holes in the plaster.

you are going to need a drill bit and some wall anchors. That is pretty much how everything will need to hang.

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I second these anchors, my apt walls were plaster with mesh and your suggestion was the right one for me. Also obligatory caulk the holes if you make one bc thats where the bugs will come from.

And for anyone doubting the strength of the hardware I was able to mount our tv to the wall.

lol come on, must have been a pretty short life.

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All that Google ability and you couldn't figure out the higher quality building materials, more defined living areas and larger sizes?

Pre-war applies to a lot more than just apartments.

OP , do you know exactly when your building was built. Asbestos wasn’t actually that common domestically in the pre war period. If you find fibers, don’t panic, it’s probably horse hair.

Plaster maybe?

If you find hair in the walls, its not a body...

The house i rent was built in the late 1800... there is horse hair in the plaster as a strengthener... Not sure what decade a renovation with horsehair plaster would fall under- i think "pre-war" as well...

Command strips or install picture rail molding. I don't put holes in walls anymore.

It’s an easy (if imprecise) delineation between the buildings that “they don’t make them like they used to” and buildings they slapped together to rectify the post war housing crisis in the city.

1940

A strong magnet will work as a stud finder!

I have the same walls as you, and also couldn't figure out why my electronic stud finder was going crazy. I was hanging a TV and didn't want to take any chances, so I hired a handyman. He pulled a magnet out of his toolkit and stuck it to the wall. (It finds the nails in the stud.)

This guy demonstrates here: https://youtu.be/JOLRl8aqWFw?t=61

To find a stud use a strong magnet it will locate the nails in the stud that is holding the lath on the stud . If you are not hitting a stud us a toggler snaptoggles 3/16”. Do not over do it as that will make the wall weaker. If your hanging a tv bracket you only need 4 toggles at most you could even get away with 3. Each 3/16” toggle holds 238lbs per toggle in 1/2” sheet rock. Plaster and lath are stronger the 1/2” sheet rock. I would hope your not hanging anything close 238lbs on a wall.

I used heavy duty snap toggles to anchor the bolts I couldn’t find ways to mount directly or indirectly to the stud. I have zero experience with carpentry and a/v installation. Your results may vary. You may end up homeless and/or divorced. But at least you’ll be able to watch dragons set things on fire on HBO I guess.

My apartment was renovated by layering drywall over the old plaster and lath walls. You can hang a picture or something small, but drilling for anchors is a chore: 5/8 drywall, a gap of 1/4-1/2, then the plaster, which may be intact or not.

Today I learned!

If your picture isn’t that heavy, try 3m sticker or velcro strips

Plaster and Lath walls, but there are absolutely still studs.

Best way to find them is to use a magnet, which will pick up the nails used to fasten the lath to the studs. Will usually stick on the wall in a straight line up and down. Once you've located stud, can screw into it like anything else.

Alternatives are to use toggles. I prefer snap toggles, but you'll need a 1/2 inch drill bit to drill the hole for them. If you're hanging something that's very heavy, I would definitely NOT rely exclusively on toggles on plaster/lath, as they're rated for drywall.

The other hack you can do on plaster and lath for something that isn't very heavy and is to take one of those gold picture hanging brackets and just swap the nail for a screw that you will screw down into plaster at an angle.

Then it has asbestos. Where it has asbestos is the question.

Put masking tape at the site of the nail/screw to keep the surface plaster from cracking. Pierce the tape with the nail/screw.

eh, I still don't think asbestos is common in traditional plasterwork. It's more likely to show up in mastic flooring, roofing, siding ect., or even is early gypsum drywall systems like Rock Lathe, but with 1940, it could go either way.

It can still be hard to judge, but knocking your knuckles lightly against the wall and listening for a different sound can sometimes help.

No guarantees about your neighbors’ reaction.

The 3M hooks also make much smaller holes... I have combined these with the command strips to hand some rather interesting things.

Had a similar issue. Place is 100+ years old and I wanted to hang a table in the kitchen, but that's not the sort of thing you do without a stud. Luckily I had 2 things going for me.

1. Tiny neodymium magnets (strong enough to hold themselves on the wall)
2. Access to both sides of the wall.

I used the cubes to mark every metal object found. Then I repeated this on the other side of the wall to corroborate. I discovered the 9ft stretch of wall had no standard stud spacing. Rather a single 4in wide stud (maybe two 2x4s?) in the middle of the wall.

So it seems plaster has moderate strength, more than dry wall, for light-to-medium things. Is that correct?

The only super heavy thing I am trying to find studs for is a full motion TV mount for a 63 lb TV which will be extended and from the wall. The rest of my stuff I can use command strips for.

I might just have a professional do it. Where did you go to hire your handyman?

My tv is 63 lbs and I want to put it on a full motion extendable swivel mount, so don't want to risk it.

Confirmed, my building is from 1939 and it’s plater over metal mesh. I have found a masonry bit in a drill with drywall anchors is the most fool proof method for hanging. I use 100lb toggle bolts for anything heavy and never had a problem. The Ook Professional hooks work the best for not cracking the poster for smaller items.

Plaster and lathe. Before drywall. More brittle. You can hang pix by drilling a hole and inserting a molly-bolt.

>I put so many goddamn heavy-duty anchors into my wall because I wasn't able to find more than one stud

For folks wanting to replicate, do try and only do it on walls that aren't shared with a neighbor, because these holes really start hurting the soundproofing (if any!), especially if its a TV being hanged there.

TaskRabbit

Yes I found my guy on Task Rabbit. Cost something like $75 an hour but I think it was worth it.

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