tiregroove t1_j7wcza5 wrote
CNBC is absolute bullshit with that report.
Actual data is showing PEOPLE ARE NOT RETURNING FROM THE PANDEMIC.
You know what's keeping rents high?
COLLUSION.
Landlords have been using proprietary software to set prices in real time.
It's called RealPage and they're already being investigated by the DOJ.
https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-realpage-rent-doj-investigation-antitrust
Also landlords' warehousing' units.
Here's a deep-dive that refutes the influx of 'people returning from the pandemic.'
https://www.curbed.com/2023/01/nyc-real-estate-covid-more-apartments-higher-rent.html
[deleted] t1_j7wjzak wrote
[deleted]
tiregroove t1_j7wpmq3 wrote
What REALLY pisses me off more is how all these media outlets are like 'RENTS ARE SKYROCKETING THIS IS INSANITY!!!!!!!!' and then none of them bother to fucking do ANY investigation whatsoever, Just assholes in badly fitting suits and glasses pontificating and basically whining about it like 'WTF is going on nYC iS cRazyToWn!!!!!'
[deleted] t1_j7wpyrn wrote
[deleted]
iv2892 t1_j7xb701 wrote
Is this happening also outside the US?
[deleted] t1_j7xd728 wrote
[deleted]
iv2892 t1_j7xfe4a wrote
I just feel sad that almost everybody won’t be able to truly anything . I hardly was able to buy a 1br apartment in Hackensack, just a few minutes away from nyc. But eventually trying to own a full sized house. But it seems very hard to achieve , unless I move even farther
[deleted] t1_j7wxjl5 wrote
[deleted]
CoochieSnotSlurper t1_j7xww32 wrote
Apartments.com (CoStar) also has a similar system. All these companies are crooks
AllCommiesRFascists t1_j7xqseh wrote
Least fascist redditor here
Freddy-Sez t1_j7x1fna wrote
It’s funny to me that you are blasting CNBC for this report while uncritically accepting a Curbed story that asserts people didn’t come back to the city by citing USPS change of address filings, which are virtually meaningless as a measure of short-term population shifts.
Does anyone who lived through 2020 honestly believe there was not a massive influx of people back into the city in 2021 and 2022? Did you experience what it was like to try to rent an apartment in summer 2021?
Price fixing is always an issue but the idea that surging demand isn’t a major contributing factor here is ludicrous
Effeted t1_j7xnwk9 wrote
People are just looking for rage porn to find someone to blame for their rent
Welcome to the highest demand market in the entire world lol
colourcodedcandy t1_j813qft wrote
There are people in this very thread disputing peer-reviewed research because "it's written by luxury housing developers" -- these people are beyond redemption and don't believe in what economists have to say. There's little point in debating tbh
Papa--Mochi t1_j7z4umt wrote
>Does anyone who lived through 2020 honestly believe there was not a massive influx of people back into the city in 2021 and 2022?
I know one entity that doesn't believe that; the census. It shows that population in summer 2021 was 400,000 down on April 2020.
Demand to live in NYC is depressed, likely temporarily, and right now we're losing more people than we're gaining.
I totally understand why people will do a ton of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting this fact, but it is what it is.
We like it here. That's all that matters.
Freddy-Sez t1_j7zkg44 wrote
That’s an estimate from 18 months ago. Rents peaked a full year after that
Papa--Mochi t1_j7zkyii wrote
I know, but you said summer 2021 was difficult to rent an apartment. Given population hadn't recovered, that clearly wasn't due to demand, but artificially limited supply.
lupuscapabilis t1_j84kfus wrote
Rents peaked once landlords were again able to evict people.
Rottimer t1_j7x09s1 wrote
The curbed article is an opinion using the Postal Service's Change of Address Requests - which the author even admits has problems. It's almost as if he picked out part of this report:
And then ignored everything else that went against the idea that the population is falling. I found this bit particularly fascinating:
>And I spent a long time trying to make sense of data from the New York City Water Board, which shows that the amount of waste treated by the city’s processing plants jumped in 2021. (Maybe everybody had shit their pants when they found out how much their rent was going up?) But it turns out those plants treat not just human waste but stormwater too, and 2021 was rainier than usual. At least I think that’s the reason — the Water Board quit returning my emails after a while.
So the Waterboard is treating more waste, but he dismisses it as just more rain. Did he try to speak to an third party to make sense of the data? Or did he just not want to make sense of the data?
Calling moving companies doesn't really help much either because of course people aren't generally going to call local NYC moving companies if they're moving into NYC from elsewhere. Rather they'd do that if they're moving out and use one local to them for moving into the city.
I'm not saying that the report on CNBC is right. I'm just saying the curbed article is also ridiculous.
[deleted] t1_j7xzkaq wrote
[deleted]
thisismynewacct t1_j7z0m03 wrote
They do that for taxes. They still live here
Rottimer t1_j7z4tzh wrote
And that’s a whole other issue. People living here for 180 days per year to avoid contributing to the tax base and then others just cheating by reporting their address as elsewhere but spending 100% of their time in nyc.
I know 3 high income people (300,000+ salary) that have done that, where they report living in low or no income tax state because they own homes there, but spend nearly 100% of their time in nyc paying rent. It’s something they can do with their employer because they’re remote and only come into the office a couple days per month.
[deleted] t1_j7zc7ml wrote
[deleted]
Papa--Mochi t1_j7z54o0 wrote
>So the Waterboard is treating more waste, but he dismisses it as just more rain. Did he try to speak to an third party to make sense of the data? Or did he just not want to make sense of the data?
There's a reliable third-party that's already confirmed his claim that NYC population was off a cliff even in the back half of 2021: The government census says NYC's population was down 400,000 in July, compared to April 2020.
I get why people don't want to accept it, but it's right there in black and white.
Rottimer t1_j7z6gok wrote
And that makes a lot of sense given how covid hit this city. A LOT of people that could, left. The question is whether the population rebounded in 2022. There are a lot of indicators that it has and that would explain the increase in rents. It could be collusion using software or some combination of factors. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to definitively say that the population has stayed depressed when there is conflicting data and we know the Census PEP has consistently under estimated.
froggythefish t1_j7wtres wrote
Landlords will keep prices as high as they can. That’s literally their “job”. They can’t make more money by providing better service as they don’t provide a service. They just set the price as high as possible. They don’t need software to do this, there will always be a demand for housing so they can set the price as high as they want and eventually someone will bite. The only solution is to get rid of landlords.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments