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Now instead of stenches being isolated to single subway car, everyone gets the experience!

The A/C.

Saved you a click.

>oppose

yup... not looking forward to this redesign... smell worries me but also violence

These train cars are a good idea in a society where there’s an expectation of order and decent behavior on public transportation, but since we’ve decided that doesn’t matter it’s not going to work out well.

The other day someone got on the train, knife in hand, and everyone from that car was able to leave that one and close off the door from him until the following stop where the police were waiting.

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I'd just like to see new cars on the Crosstown (Yellow for tourists) line, rather than ones that were made before I was born (I am 63).

high-tech? Most major systems run by competent organizations already have most of the features of the r211. the MTA is not bringing the future, they are just playing catch-up.

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Now with cameras! But will they function?

And how hard is it to get wifi on new cars?!

crosstown is lime green.

Also I assume there will be a shit load of video ads playing.

So no escaping the stench of the guy who craps himself or being able to get away from the loud guy who is clearly trying to start something with anyone. Also no getting away from a mariachi band, backflippers, idiots who think a subway is a party space, and anyone else who doesn't realize you just sit there quietly and wait until your stop so you can escape the horror of being with other people.

They’ll probably make it to the N/Q/W eventually, but the R46s that run on the A/C seem to be in worse shape.

Certainly on the C line.

We're getting new bathrooms.

-The Homeless

Seems like the MTA should fix the smelling problem instead of kneecapping train capacity to isolate it

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Worst to first

These trains are a bad idea.

Yeah, and every car is the showtime car

I kinda miss the R32s. The heating on them was amazing, even tho it was probably produced by straight up burning oil.

exactly! This is fucked

Ehhh…maybe if they’re relatively new, like in some Asian countries.

People like to tout the Paris metro as an example of mass transit expansion, but many Paris subway lines have trains with manually operated doors. Train advancements are not a priority there.

I’ve ridden the MTA, DC Metro, Paris subway, several Tokyo train lines, and the subway in Seoul, and the MTA measures up fine.

The main way the MTA falls short these days has more to do with our homelessness and mental illness crises than details of the subway.

Edit: Paris trains also don’t have AC.

With whom are they playing catch up? I know Europe and Japan are way ahead of the US with transit, but are there other US systems that already have comparable trains?

And it's not like the MTA can do anything about homelessness. They can't build affordable housing or implement universal healthcare.

How long before it gets permanent human waste smell?

Exactly, it’s a symptom of a greater problem, not a failure of the MTA.

This deserves all the likes

Oh I’m sure they’re all over it.

Is it gonna make them any less late? That’s literally all I care about.

how much do these babies screech on boylston st turn?

We used to have them from the 1930s to 1960s. Visit the transit museum's triplex cars. This isn't new technology.

There’s plenty of things to criticize about the MTA, but “not refreshing their entire fleet every decade” is not one of them

Thank you. Everyone loves to shit on the MTA. While some of it is deserved, I think they do a pretty exceptional job for the most part. People don’t treat the stations or cars with respect because of other issues that are outside of the MTAs control.

🤣

I was recently in Singapore and their MRT made me want to cry.

R32 FOREVER!!

high tech trains have charging stations, microled/oled glass windows, completely automated etc. which already are in use in some metro systems around the world. The fact that the windows are smaller in R211 because the doors are too big is a step back in technology. In modern trains, they easily overcome this problem by making doors slide out over the windows.

I was just in Paris, and multiple times, the metro train I was on was literally from the 1960s-1970s. And you could tell.

Let's not. Someone was blasting tiktok audio from their phone the other day. I loved the parts where we were in between stations.

Fuck.

Their A/C was wonderful too!

And with facial recognition software, they can send a ticket right to their door.

Now the smells of summer homelessness can fill the entire train.

Probably. In theory, newer cars break less.

Europe and East Asia

Why

Do they know yet if these will be autobots or decepticons?

Comeback of the decade. Though I wonder if these open passageway cars will be a blessing or a curse. Now you can enjoy showtime from three cars away. And no sense in avoiding the empty car with somebody nodding off in a puddle of their own piss and shit—it’s all one car now. “We’re all in this together” will never be more true of the daily subway commute.

no because the issue with cars being late has to do with tracks and signals which in exactly zero ways are getting improved by this

Wifi? If anything they need to build emps on the train so we don’t have to listen to other peoples phone calls or blasting music/ videos

We don’t need them to we just need them to keep the homeless people out of the train and stations.

Seriously, what non-train-riding asshole thought this was a good idea

Newer cars aren’t always more reliable.

Now instead of the "jump out at the next station and rush to the next car to escape the crazy yelling guy threatening to kill everyone" experience, you get the "rush back and forth down an entire train length for the duration of the commute because now there's nowhere to go!" experience.

I guess it'll be good for your exercise regimen.

I think it makes the trains safer. No more being isolated from other passengers.

I just hope these cars are quieter. The screeching is unbearable sometimes.

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I’ve had to move train cars because a weirdo made me feel unsafe, now I’d have to leave the train and wait for the next train. Lame

no doors for the homeless to open to walk between cars either. i give it 24 hours

I was on the A the other night when an older woman started slamming her shopping trolly against the doors and screaming at the top of her lungs. The girl next to me looked at me and shook her head, “We gotta get the fuck out of New York.”

Now we can’t even get out of the car!

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what happens to people who leave trash in the trains there?

You da real 8th Ave Express

Bro literally nothing will satisfy you. They don't buy new cars: "oh wow what losers we're soo far behind the rest of the world." They do buy new cars: "that's not the future, they're just playing catch up to the rest of the world." Pick a lane

This type of infrastructure works perfectly in Europe, Asia, but most definitely won't in New York City in its current condition. Travel to cities like Brussels, Belgium (only place I've and seen the open-gangway, and maybe Beijing too but can't recall) and ride their metro - it's a comfortable and low stress experience.

There's been no noticeable improvement in the control of unhoused & EDP riding the subway over the last 6 months, having cops at every station hasn't (and won't in the future) improve safety.

The BART in San Francisco, a place which many label as having worse problems, has 'sleek high-tech' cars, with no open gangway.

There will be blood spilt on these new subway cars, hopefully not too much, particularly as the pilot is targeted over the spring & summer. Until something is implemented on a large scale to control and treat the drug-addled and mentally disturbed populace here, and incarcerate the career criminals -- we can't have nice things.

In the article they mentioned that the cars are compatible with the new autonomous system that has been slowly rolling out over the past 5 years. So theoretically, yes, these cars would help with trains being on time since they don’t have to rely on antique signaling systems. As long as the train line itself has finished installing the beacons (I think it’s like 1 every 20 feet)

Oh no! Not the tiktok!!

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Do they have wifi now?

No…

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Where in Europe?

Not the US, but both Toronto and Montréal have had open gangway trains for a while now

The same thing that should happen here!

They're a bad idea in NYC because too many people have no manners, and there won't be a way to get away from someone or something on these trains. I'm a lifelong NYer, and I won't take these trains if I don't have to.

Same. There's no way to get away....

They absolutely can keep them out. If the police can search me without probable cause, there should be a hygiene and "dont disturb the peace" standard.

Only two trains out of the entire order have the open-gangway design, so it won't be too easy to gauge how successful they are here. The upcoming A division order (R262) is going to be open gangway-only apparently, but that's several years off

The other night I got on the train twice and there were a few cars with homeless people sleeping in them, a violent guy kicking at the doors and threatening to fuck people up, and the smell of shit lingering strongly in the air.

Now obviously most trips aren’t like this, but it happens. And when it does, you can just move over to a different car. With open gangway cars, however, it’s going to be a bit harder to do that, no?

I never understood the appeal and reason for them, but if that’s going to be part of the subway experience, it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out - for better or for worse.

The Elizabeth Line in London feels 50 years ahead of anything we have in NYC. Stockholm's entire system is pretty great too, as is Copenhagen's fully-automated 24/7 metro

Only 20 cars of the 535-car order have open gangways. Those are basically a test run, so it's a non-issue

Exactly. In Tokyo, where I grew up, I could travel on the subway by myself at the age of 9 and nobody so much as litters in the tracks let alone misbehave inside a train. We lack civility and decency in NYC, which is why this new type of train will be beset by people problems

This is such a stupid complaint. Istg New York gets any kind of transit improvements we have been begging for and new yorkers throw a fit about it lmao

"Bet this beats the subway car you rode to work."

No....I would rather any carriage but these new ones. I'm rather partial to R46 and R40 thank you.

True. And every time I see a group of cops at a station, they’re standing around doing nothing, not even paying attention to who’s getting on or off the trains 🙄

Unicron. Soon, the entire subway system will come to life and consume New Jersey. Freeing us from our eternal shackles.

Now the smelly homeless person taking a carriage on his own will wreak the whole entire train with his “I haven’t showered in 6 months” smell.

Great.

This is good, glad to see the city is modernizing its trains

Thats not how it works , other countries have been doing this . NYC is following suit

This makes the trains safer actually

Like typical New Yorkers

It will work in nyc, give it a chance. It’s time to improve. I like that they are starting to modernize

Looking forward to the homeless, the edgy young kids smoking in the car, plus the new trend of bringing dogs in without a carrying case and of course, not one cop to help in sight.

> The open-gangway trains link together the first five cars and the last five cars of the train, allowing passengers to more easily move between the front half or back half, a setup that is common on major European subways like London and Paris.

Now the retch-inducing stench can pervade 50% of the train instead of just 10%! And now you'll hear the Big Show multiple times as it travels down the train!

Other countries also don’t put up with a sliver of the shit that’s allowed to occur in our subway system.

Ok so a single literally just opened line in London. It is nice, pretty similar to the 2nd Ave line when just opened. That project is pretty great overall though, a crosstown express link like that would be amazing in NYC.

I’m not personally familiar with it, but as far as I can tell Copenhagen is a light rail system comprised of a total of 4 lines with less than 300k daily ridership. Not exactly comparable to NYC in any way.

Also not personally familiar with Stockholm, but it doesn’t look revolutionary as far as I can tell. It also serves 1/4 of the stations and 1/5 of the daily riders as the NYC subway. What makes it so good?

As a former SG resident, this questions make no sense in their culture.

How about they buy new cars when they're actually new? There's literally plenty that would satisfy.

Open gangway train cars are awesome. Looking forward to these rolling out to my lines.

Was really rooting for 1/2/3, Q, B, F, L

They are isolated cases , I see this as an improvement . But of course , not everyone is going to be happy. But we will get used to it

And this also gives the advantage to the conductor in case somebody is being unruly . Easier to deal with

Wow

Of course most European cities aren't operating a system on the scale of NYC's, since almost none of their cities are the same size. What's different is a series of almost night / day differences in quality of life, when using those systems.

The expectation here should be that we have stations as clean and functional as the ones in Stockholm or Copenhagen- i.e., working toward full accessibility, well-lit, floors not covered in decades of chewing gum, no puddles of urine or mysterious black gunk dripping from the ceiling, tolerable noise levels, no horrible odors almost everywhere, no poisonous diesel fumes from work trains, benches you don't dread sitting on, etc. Basically, conditions you'd expect in any normal public building (like a library).

I'm also aware that plenty of sub-par systems exist around Europe, and there's no point in lumping the whole continent together.

This is not a transit issue, that is a societal issue.

Y’all complain about everything

i imagine the benefits will outweigh the risks especially with the number of accidents that involved changing cars that will now completely be gone...

IDK I didn't see any

Yeah but durians

Why single out Europe? East Asia has everyone put to shame: Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei, etc.

Was just in Taipei last month and coming back to NYC was jarring. Their subways are impeccably timed, clean, well-lit, have cell-signal, etc. Just about every station has public restrooms that are well-maintained and don't smell of perpetual urine. They even have barricades to the track, which some people might have you believe is an impossible goal to have.

thanks I do my best to avoid giving the post clicks

NYC will be a floating city in the clouds , like the metropolis in Star Wars, we will give that a chance too and it will assuredly happen.

The open gangway subway I'm afraid, will fail atrociously and embarrass the city in front of the world. Certain measures are absolutely required for it to begin and be sustainable in the people management scope, and they are not complete.

Fare going up

Eh, I wouldn't say the MTA is "exceptional" for the most part. They drop the ball on really big, important things (and a lot of little but important things, like keeping the place clean).

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html

I can't help but think that the people complimenting the MTA either have very short commutes within Manhattan, or don't actually ride the subway. Crazy/loud people and disgusting smells aside, the service is terrible.

Yeah I think I meant to say acceptable, not exceptional lol. Whoops

Keeping the system clean and comfortable to use is one of the MTA's basic responsibilities.

Now the stupid f beggars can peddle their candy bars with ease between stops

They are

They are New York’s only local newspaper

Can't wait for them to get covered in piss and hobo juices

At least now police can't hide in another car behind doors

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And what is the main issue they face? Homelessness. Do transportation authorities elsewhere deal with anything remotely comparable?

I hate them

When I first moved there I couldn't understand why every taxi had a no smoking and no spikey bomb sign on the window.

Seems like a lot of those accidents involved people peeing between cars. Now they’ll just pee inside the cars. That’s better I guess.

I don’t know what you expect conductors to do that they’re not already doing.

I was just in London. I don't remember cars being open gangway.

Love how these trains are designed and purchased by people who probably don't regularly ride the subway. Vertical grab bars are once again near the doors, blocking people coming on and off. Horizontal grab bars are set in too far, making then only reachable by people 5'7" and above. Same experience as the existing R trains.

Bro all I want is a service that gets there on time and is clean. I don't give a fuck about monitor displays, wifi and all the bullshit. Who comes up with the budget for these?

it makes sense. they would replace the oldest with the newest and repeat.

Because it's Mario kart

not to mention we have signal controllers from 1920

That gangway passage is not really soundproofed. Will be extra screechy.

Cross town is shuttle to grand Central O.o

this is why, when a previous commenter said that the MTA does a fairly good job, I (mostly) agree.

it's in large part that no other system in the world has to deal with asshole people like littering, graffitiing, cursing, spitting, eating, puking, defecating, pissing, smoking, injecting, vandalizing, mentally unstable, poor, homeless, rude, inconsiderate, 24/7, blase, New Yorkers

Aren’t platform edge doors way more important? With this “sleek design” for $3.2 billion, crazy people can still not only push you in front of the train but also chase you the whole length of the train up and down. Bravo MTA!

In practice I think when they studied this they observed fewer crazy people everywhere this open gangway design was implemented. It seems that the crazy people felt emboldened by the fact that there was only a few people in the room them the doors shut.

The 2/3 line takes the cake for me.

The last time I visited nyc I took the A at night to Inwood, and the last car was almost empty. A rough-looking woman was berating and threatening her husband over his phone bill. I caught her eye and she gave me a homicidal stare. I guess I’ll try the new A next time but it would have to be daytime.

Yayyy new homeless shelters!

Unpopular opinion: subway performers are awesome and cool, especially mariachi bands. It's part of what makes living in ny so fun

if you rode District Line the cars were newer and open gangway

Great, so if one car stinks of rancid homeless dude, all cars stink of rancid homeless dude. Not only that, you can’t get away from the assclowns who don’t use headphones and use their phones like it’s their living rooms. And to top it off, the A/C line starts this off. The spitters are going to have a field day trying to see how far they can spit into the next car.

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So many whiners in this thread, Jesus!

nice open gangway... now one puddle of urine doesn't have to stuck on one car. The love can be shared with all passengers on any car. <3

camera on every car? am i alone in my opposition to that?

The subways are NYC’s mobile homeless shelters/asylums.

Admittedly, I like mariachi music. Not at full volume singing an inch away from me, but in general.

Didn’t the A/C get the R179? A few years ago?

I see her every 3rd time I'm on the A train btw.... She loxes to randomly scream very loudly too for no reason.

No doubt it's a major issue, but it doesn't explain the state of neglect so much of the system is in. The message NYC is sending is that we've just given up on trying to improve things.

I wonder how they'll go about representing stations on these trains.. I'm guessing it'll be the fully digital system like on the M and G trains (the only ones I remember off the top of my head)

How frequent did it run and how consistent was the service though? That’s all I care about.

And yet so many people will use the same shitty stuff as a badge of honor.

Wait, you actually want change? “Real New Yorkers just deal with all this shit because we’re tough”

Most are fine, except the showtime folks that want to use a packed train as a circus and get aggressive when someone who’s just trying to get home is standing somewhere they are totally entitled to stand.

I mean you can do the same as before? That weirdo was still able to follow you and move between cars in the same exact way you did.

IMO this is better because you don’t have to wait for a stop to move cars and find a more crowded car. In fact, I like this because I think it’ll be easier to see where people are late night and move closer to other normals as opposed to being alone in one car when the crazy joins you.

Hard agree. I commute on the E/F where it's 5 minutes between express stops in Queens and those are a long and tense five minutes when there is someone unhinged and there's nowhere to go.

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With all the train noise you'll hardly hear Showtime three or four cars away. What's more likely is that they'll be offended when ppl start walking away from their performances. Or Showtime dies altogether idk.

Im honestly glad that I will feel less trapped when my cars subway doors won’t open-might not be logical but still. And the cameras? That’s amazing! I wish they would add cameras to even the old trains

It almost entirely explains most of the issues you pointed to. The system has become filthy and unkept because it is a de facto homeless shelter. The safety concerns largely stem from the same issue.

There are maintenance items that could certainly be improved, but at what cost? Are we okay with weekend and overnight service being dramatically cut to allow for cosmetic maintenance? It’s much easier to polish stations when they’re closed every night.

I’m not giving the MTA a full pass, they waste money at an impressive rate, I just think it’s important to put some of these things into context. This is not Copenhagen, the issues faced are very different in many respects.

You don't love shoving your genitals in people's faces when trying to reach the horizontal bars?

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Showtime is why I bought AirPods Pro Gen 2 for the improved noise cancelling