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dominus_aranearum t1_j6bxski wrote

Reply to comment by dravik in Woman on Way to Work Abruptly Swallowed by Long Island Lawn — Then 2 More Fall In by ChocolateTsar

>No, it was the water pipe leak. They just don't want to pay to fix this guy's yard.

Says the non-judgemental redditor water erosion expert who's never been onsite.

First, you've even less of a clue than the city.

Second, given that it's in the front yard, it's more than likely the homeowner's responsibility if it's a broken pipe, not the city. Same goes for rain water. Only way I could see this being on the city is if their drains overflowed, came onto the homeowner's property, then miraculously decided to wash away the soil under the lawn. Not likely.

Might be location dependent but where I am, city is only responsibly up to the meter. Most meters are near the property line, not just outside the front door.

Edit: I am absolutely astounded at my downvotes. Don't really care but reddit's moronic hivemind has really taken the cake here. I have to seriously wonder how many of the downvotes have come from people with actual experience in, knowledge of or familiarity with home ownership or home construction.

Given my experience with both and also my experience with fixing water supply breaks between the meter and a house, I'm going to double down with my original comment. The actual lack of intelligence is here is mind numbing.

For whoever commented about water meters being on houses and that maybe I was used to a more rural setting where the meter is at the road, is Seattle rural enough for you?

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PoopSmith87 t1_j6e9bkx wrote

Long Island homes (with city water) usually have the water meter in the basement right next to their shutoff.

As far as Seattle... well, I don't know a damn thing about Seattle, or their water hookups.

The real question is: where is the leak, and what is responsible? Was it the developer? Was it the water district? Was it knicked by a landscaper or utility worker trench and reburied?

I'm sure we will find out in due time

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dominus_aranearum t1_j6eaa6f wrote

Hence the reason I said location dependent. While I've been to Long Island, I'm not familiar with their meter location. Thank you for the information.

Even without any information on the investigation, I lean towards this being more related to the recent weather than a water supply leak. How does somebody not notice the enormous leap in their water bill?

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PoopSmith87 t1_j6ec4d1 wrote

If the break is before the meter, it wouldn't be on the bill. Nevermind the bill, in a Long Island home with a metered leak, you'll actually hear the meter buzzing away in the basement.

Weather is pretty unlikely, Long Island generally is not prone to sink holes as it lacks the "soft bedrock" geology that leads to them. Long Island is basically a long, extended sandbar that was pushed up by a glacier, sand and tumbled rocks, there just isn't any kind of limestone or carbonate bedrock to cause sinkholes

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dominus_aranearum t1_j6egqb7 wrote

If before the meter, I get they wouldn't see it and it would depend how long a leak had been there and how often the water company monitored the difference between their output meter and a homeowners use meter. Ours are read bi-monthly.

We have glacial till where I am so digging holes by hand is super fun, more rock than dirt in each shovelful. Can't see sink holes happening here either unless there was some solid surface above it. However, I have seen abundant amounts of rain overwhelm drainage and undermine the ground around houses from time to time. I've also seen rain water running down a hill a few inches under the surface, only noticed when it was coming up through a friends water meter box. We also have underground springs that will wash stuff out over time.

It will be interesting to see if the findings are newsworthy. Not counting on it.

Thank you for the actual conversation. I wish more people could dialogue.

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PoopSmith87 t1_j6emwa5 wrote

Yeah, it's all conjecture as of now.

My uninformed but kinda smort guess is that it was a quick, massive failure before the meter, or possibly with irrigation that was on an off meter well (a common setup here). Long Island, being a sandbar, gives way to water pretty easily, so it would be quick work for a 1.5" high pressure main to excavate that cavity. I once saw very large main at a horse farm that left a crater big enough to hide a school bus in the ~30 seconds it took to shut down. If this was a normal residential main running all night, this size hole is totally possible. Because it's a grass yard, and a frozen one at that, the grass roots holds up the top 6" and viola, you have a hidden deathtrap.

If I'm right, her sand got pushed down into the water table, or gushed out all over her yard on the edges.

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dominus_aranearum t1_j6fcxfl wrote

>saw very large main at a horse farm that left a crater big enough to hide a school bus in the ~30 seconds it took to shut down.

I used to build houses. Heard an excavator hit a water main in a cul-de-sac. Not sure the size but it made a very big hole very quickly. Took a few minutes to find someone with the proper tool to shut water off for the entire street. Good thing it was at the top of a hill. =)

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BuffSwolington t1_j6dvmkp wrote

You seem fun

Maybe people are downvoting you because you called the OC "redditor water erosion expert" and then proceeded to act like your take on this is 100% correct and got indignant towards downvotes when the investigation for this event is ongoing and in a city you do not live in. I would recommend going outside and taking a breath of fresh air, I too live in seattle the air is quite good quality

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dominus_aranearum t1_j6e0hhl wrote

I am fun.

My whole point was that without being there and looking at the evidence, it's pointless to say what caused it or start pointing fingers. Nowhere did I give my take as a 100% correct. I gave options for potential causes that it could be from a broken pipe or from weather-related drainage issues. I also gave the opinion that it is of course location dependent, but blaming the city for not wanting to take responsibility was ridiculous at this point given the lack of investigation details.

But hey, if offering my experienced opinion and calling out an armchair skeptic who automatically blames the city with zero evidence gives me down votes, no worries, I'll take them all day long.

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BuffSwolington t1_j6e1jfp wrote

Nobody asked for your experienced opinion. You realize you are on Reddit right? Nobody is contracting you for this particular investigation. Great, the OC was probably wrong in his assessment. Once again, why does it bother you so much that you have to act like this? Just take the L and move on knowing you were right but nobody likes how you act anyway

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dominus_aranearum t1_j6e9me0 wrote

Nope, nobody asked for my opinion. Nor did anyone ask for the opinion of the person I replied to. Except they didn't state it as an opinion but as a fact, throwing out an accusation against the city. I recognize that this is Reddit and that there are all manner of idiots behind keyboards up here, myself included, but just as in real life I don't stand for misinformation or unfounded accusations, I don't on Reddit either.

I'm not driven by caring what others think about me. I'm not driven by Reddit karma. It is more important to me that the correct information is given more weight than incorrect information. Unfounded accusations destroy people's lives. Even when the facts come out at a later point, the damage has been done. I recognize that an individual person has not been accused and the city won't suffer any harm by the comment I replied to, the principal is the same.

We live in a world of propaganda. We live in a world where people have serious difficulty differentiating between truth and lies. We live in a world where people tolerate rather than accept. These are major factors that on a grand scale lead to the downward spiral the world is currently facing. The history that repeats itself over and over. People get complacent. People accept lies and abuse because they don't want to get involved. I'm done doing that. Changes have to start at the smallest level. Even one anonymous person to another.

Besides, this is a 20 comment post. I'm allowed to rant and get it off my chest so I can get on with my day. While I appreciate the concern, your cheerful disposition would be better suited helping somebody who bleeds negativity.

Good day.

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