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Matt1050 t1_j41vpn0 wrote

Here are a few takes from a liberal for any conservatives ready to pounce on this:

  1. He's an idiot for making the same mistake as Trump and should face similar consequences

  2. He did not take any actions that necessitated a literal FBI raid against him, he gave them over willingly

  3. The fact that his lawyers found them and returned them, rather than found them and began the process of hiding them, is telling of the integrity of the people he surrounds himself with, and therefore his own integrity as a president.

  4. Yes, he's sleepy, yes he's geriatric, yes he's got Alzheimer's... but that's just a legitimate excuse for why he would slip up like this. Trump does not have Alzheimer's and is not "sleepy"... So where is his medical excuse for hiding top secret documents, exactly?

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ChuckFeathers t1_j420v39 wrote

And even with Alzheimer's he has more intelligence than Ronald, Donald and Dubya combined.

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RedditOR74 t1_j433emc wrote

>Yes, he's sleepy, yes he's geriatric, yes he's got Alzheimer's...

Exactly the reason he should not have access to classified documents.

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Matt1050 t1_j438rfu wrote

I don't disagree, hell, he shouldn't even be president. But the fact that we all watched the presidential debates and STILL voted for him over Trump is evidence enough that Trump is God awful as a leader. I don't care what any cultists or fanboys have to say, I have no love in my heart for sleepy Joe, but I'll take him over Trump any day.

You don't win elections by riling up your voter base, that's a slippery slope into violence, extremism, revolution, and coup de'tat. You win elections by pandering to those on the fence. And Trump is anything but on the fence. You can't be on the fence and build it too.

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RedditOR74 t1_j43hwyi wrote

Hard to argue with that. I liked most of Trumps enacted policies and EO's once they were presented, but he was a train wreck as a spokesman.

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Chariots487 t1_j43g46j wrote

>He's an idiot for making the same mistake as Trump and should face similar consequences

The problem is that most of your side strongly disagrees with this. We're already seeing waves of loyal accounts start saying why he didn't mean to so it isn't a problem, that he should be held to lower standards than, say, someone in the military who did this exact same thing(they'd get everything short of an on-the-spot discharge), that those documents might not have needed to be classified anyway because "everyone knows" America overclassifies things so it isn't a problem. They're not willing to let the truth of the matter that you've laid out speak for itself.

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Matt1050 t1_j43y173 wrote

There are fanboys and cultists on both sides, but if you had to pick between the two geriatric presidents and their classified documents, which is the lesser evil? According to a majority of voters Joe is less of a threat to peace and freedom.

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Chariots487 t1_j4413pd wrote

I...really don't see how that's relevant to the issue at hand.

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Matt1050 t1_j44awpv wrote

You don't think that two presidents, both harboring top secret documents outside of their intended spaces, both eligible for election in the next campaign cycle, should be compared?

On what planet is that comparison not relevant?

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Chariots487 t1_j44ku2s wrote

On the planet where "this other guy did something bad too!" doesn't automatically excuse another person's actions. If you can only talk about this by constantly repeating "but Trump is worse!" your priority isn't "hey a bad thing happened" it's "hey I need to make sure the President doesn't look bad because of this bad thing that happened."

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Matt1050 t1_j44nu8f wrote

Your insinuation of my bias is... Well, incredibly biased.

You said it yourself, saying "but what about him" is a logical fallacy. In fact, it's literally called a whattaboutism.

Still. Biden's lawyers probably would have never searched his residences if there weren't precedent established that classified documents weren't being handled properly. Hell, that's the entire reason why searching Mara Lago seemed so outrageous in the first place: because it was assumed prior to that moment that the President of the United States was held to a certain standard, and that the title implied a certain level of both honor and scrutiny that would have made such a thing impossible.

And yet... It happened anyways. And Biden's residences were searched. Why? Not because the federal government had reason to suspect missing documents, but because Biden himself was trying to cover his own ass for mistakes he knew would paint him as a hypocrite. If you think this is anything less than damage control you're mistaken. Biden made the same mistake as Trump and is trying to do "the right thing" to save face.

In other words, the two events are inextricably linked. They are direct and related events: cause and effect.

Cause - Trump took secret documents and, knowing his demeanor, arrogance and tendency to surround himself with loyalists he probably told a few too many people about them.

Effect - rapidly losing trust from those on the fence after Jan 6th, someone ratted him out to the FBI who went searching

Cause - Trump tried to hide the documents and downplay their significance, rather than hand them over and fess up

Effect - scrutiny over classified documents in the hands of politicians was heightened

Cause - Biden's lawyers, cognizant of the newly heightened scrutiny from the FBI decided to get out ahead of their gaze and hand their documents over willingly

Effect - Trump supporters are calling Biden a hypocrite, and Biden supporters are downplaying the significance of his transgressions

In every step of that chain of events Donald Trump and his supporters are equally if not more involved than Biden and his.

Conclusion: this is not a whattaboutism. It is entirely relevant to get the guy who "started it" involved in the conversation. To my knowledge no such presidential transgressions regarding theft and/or "borrowing" (depending on how you look at it) of high value documents has occured since Nixon. Trump did it first, not Biden.

Nixon was impeached for Watergate 49 years ago. Nearly 5 decades. Trump was president 3 years ago, and was raided less than 6 months ago. You literally cannot say that isn't relevant not only given it's proximity but, again, the fact that the two of them will be competing for election in the next cycle.

Please explain to me how the two most prominent political figures in the United States are not relevant to each other the second either of them does a damned thing? We, as voting citizens, are here for one purpose and one purpose only: to decide which of these two knuckleheads gets to run our nation into the ground. You cannot help but compare these two events as they happened one after another and were effectively the same exact event, besides one crucial factor: Biden gave them over willingly.

In fact, I'm almost willing to say that Biden took the documents intentionally just so that he could give them back willingly and show the world that he is a more honest and transparent president.

Think what you want to think, but I never said they shouldn't both be punished, I only said the Mara Lago raid is just as relevant. News and politics are rarely so compartmentalized and separate.

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