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Not_Steve t1_j41umgk wrote

It sounds like Biden’s people are doing a full sweep of his properties for any documents and willingly giving them over.

I’d rather this than, you know, the lying about them and trying to hide them even after an FBI raid.

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RedditOR74 t1_j4335x1 wrote

I'de rather no one took them home, left or right. Way too many classified leaks occur through sloppy politicians. If workers can be prosecuted, officials should be as well.

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Not_Steve t1_j435z3n wrote

Well, yes, but we can’t have nice politicians. Nobody wants to be punished for their actions and we’ve seen how the justice system refuses to reprimand any person in power beyond a slap on a wrist.

This is just another case of voting for the lesser of two evils.

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Matt1050 t1_j41vpn0 wrote

Here are a few takes from a liberal for any conservatives ready to pounce on this:

  1. He's an idiot for making the same mistake as Trump and should face similar consequences

  2. He did not take any actions that necessitated a literal FBI raid against him, he gave them over willingly

  3. The fact that his lawyers found them and returned them, rather than found them and began the process of hiding them, is telling of the integrity of the people he surrounds himself with, and therefore his own integrity as a president.

  4. Yes, he's sleepy, yes he's geriatric, yes he's got Alzheimer's... but that's just a legitimate excuse for why he would slip up like this. Trump does not have Alzheimer's and is not "sleepy"... So where is his medical excuse for hiding top secret documents, exactly?

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ChuckFeathers t1_j420v39 wrote

And even with Alzheimer's he has more intelligence than Ronald, Donald and Dubya combined.

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RedditOR74 t1_j433emc wrote

>Yes, he's sleepy, yes he's geriatric, yes he's got Alzheimer's...

Exactly the reason he should not have access to classified documents.

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Matt1050 t1_j438rfu wrote

I don't disagree, hell, he shouldn't even be president. But the fact that we all watched the presidential debates and STILL voted for him over Trump is evidence enough that Trump is God awful as a leader. I don't care what any cultists or fanboys have to say, I have no love in my heart for sleepy Joe, but I'll take him over Trump any day.

You don't win elections by riling up your voter base, that's a slippery slope into violence, extremism, revolution, and coup de'tat. You win elections by pandering to those on the fence. And Trump is anything but on the fence. You can't be on the fence and build it too.

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RedditOR74 t1_j43hwyi wrote

Hard to argue with that. I liked most of Trumps enacted policies and EO's once they were presented, but he was a train wreck as a spokesman.

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Chariots487 t1_j43g46j wrote

>He's an idiot for making the same mistake as Trump and should face similar consequences

The problem is that most of your side strongly disagrees with this. We're already seeing waves of loyal accounts start saying why he didn't mean to so it isn't a problem, that he should be held to lower standards than, say, someone in the military who did this exact same thing(they'd get everything short of an on-the-spot discharge), that those documents might not have needed to be classified anyway because "everyone knows" America overclassifies things so it isn't a problem. They're not willing to let the truth of the matter that you've laid out speak for itself.

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Matt1050 t1_j43y173 wrote

There are fanboys and cultists on both sides, but if you had to pick between the two geriatric presidents and their classified documents, which is the lesser evil? According to a majority of voters Joe is less of a threat to peace and freedom.

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Chariots487 t1_j4413pd wrote

I...really don't see how that's relevant to the issue at hand.

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Matt1050 t1_j44awpv wrote

You don't think that two presidents, both harboring top secret documents outside of their intended spaces, both eligible for election in the next campaign cycle, should be compared?

On what planet is that comparison not relevant?

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Chariots487 t1_j44ku2s wrote

On the planet where "this other guy did something bad too!" doesn't automatically excuse another person's actions. If you can only talk about this by constantly repeating "but Trump is worse!" your priority isn't "hey a bad thing happened" it's "hey I need to make sure the President doesn't look bad because of this bad thing that happened."

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Matt1050 t1_j44nu8f wrote

Your insinuation of my bias is... Well, incredibly biased.

You said it yourself, saying "but what about him" is a logical fallacy. In fact, it's literally called a whattaboutism.

Still. Biden's lawyers probably would have never searched his residences if there weren't precedent established that classified documents weren't being handled properly. Hell, that's the entire reason why searching Mara Lago seemed so outrageous in the first place: because it was assumed prior to that moment that the President of the United States was held to a certain standard, and that the title implied a certain level of both honor and scrutiny that would have made such a thing impossible.

And yet... It happened anyways. And Biden's residences were searched. Why? Not because the federal government had reason to suspect missing documents, but because Biden himself was trying to cover his own ass for mistakes he knew would paint him as a hypocrite. If you think this is anything less than damage control you're mistaken. Biden made the same mistake as Trump and is trying to do "the right thing" to save face.

In other words, the two events are inextricably linked. They are direct and related events: cause and effect.

Cause - Trump took secret documents and, knowing his demeanor, arrogance and tendency to surround himself with loyalists he probably told a few too many people about them.

Effect - rapidly losing trust from those on the fence after Jan 6th, someone ratted him out to the FBI who went searching

Cause - Trump tried to hide the documents and downplay their significance, rather than hand them over and fess up

Effect - scrutiny over classified documents in the hands of politicians was heightened

Cause - Biden's lawyers, cognizant of the newly heightened scrutiny from the FBI decided to get out ahead of their gaze and hand their documents over willingly

Effect - Trump supporters are calling Biden a hypocrite, and Biden supporters are downplaying the significance of his transgressions

In every step of that chain of events Donald Trump and his supporters are equally if not more involved than Biden and his.

Conclusion: this is not a whattaboutism. It is entirely relevant to get the guy who "started it" involved in the conversation. To my knowledge no such presidential transgressions regarding theft and/or "borrowing" (depending on how you look at it) of high value documents has occured since Nixon. Trump did it first, not Biden.

Nixon was impeached for Watergate 49 years ago. Nearly 5 decades. Trump was president 3 years ago, and was raided less than 6 months ago. You literally cannot say that isn't relevant not only given it's proximity but, again, the fact that the two of them will be competing for election in the next cycle.

Please explain to me how the two most prominent political figures in the United States are not relevant to each other the second either of them does a damned thing? We, as voting citizens, are here for one purpose and one purpose only: to decide which of these two knuckleheads gets to run our nation into the ground. You cannot help but compare these two events as they happened one after another and were effectively the same exact event, besides one crucial factor: Biden gave them over willingly.

In fact, I'm almost willing to say that Biden took the documents intentionally just so that he could give them back willingly and show the world that he is a more honest and transparent president.

Think what you want to think, but I never said they shouldn't both be punished, I only said the Mara Lago raid is just as relevant. News and politics are rarely so compartmentalized and separate.

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[deleted] t1_j41rqqw wrote

[deleted]

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Warlornn t1_j41yxsi wrote

To be honest, that might be a fantastic idea from a political perspective.

It won't happen. But I would laugh my ass off for a year if he did that.

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[deleted] t1_j41pxgl wrote

This really ins't a good look.

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monogreenforthewin t1_j41qlhx wrote

it needs to be investigated but it's only really a bad look if he tells the archives and law enforcement for months that he has nothing then gets raided and they find stuff. then lies about it some more, gets searched again then they find yet more stuff.

carelessness isn't good but fixing the mistake is much better than doubling and tripling down on it.

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SelectiveSanity t1_j420ckk wrote

Tripling down? I'd say demanding the return of documents clearly marked TOP SECRET-SENSATVIE COMPARTMENTAL INFORMATION that had no right being being in his golf club's basement only being secured by a padlock is more then tripling down.

This is more like a thug trying to claim the items he stole are his because he stole them fair and square when confronted by the cops. Which actually makes a hell of lot more sense then Trump's defensive argument.

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TXWayne t1_j41ran2 wrote

Carelessness isn't good???? You know how they fix this kind of carelessness by the average person with access to classified who does something this stupid? They fire them. No politician of any flavor should get special treatment.

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Dagordae t1_j41t31k wrote

Actually they get administrative discipline.

Which can mean fired but is usually just a talking to.

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monogreenforthewin t1_j41u71x wrote

context and intent is key when it comes to documents like that. been military for almost 20 years. seen several classified info fuck ups over the years. depending on the doc and the context, it can go from slap on wrist to jail. depends on the docs, how they were secured, etc etc....

immediately returning docs upon discovery demonstrates no ill intent. trump went out of his way to hide and obstruct suggesting ill intent. honestly if trump had returned the docs he probably would have had zero happen to him.

it should be investigated without doubt but it would hardly be special treatment for Biden, or any other politician or citizen, to be let go with minimal consequences if the breaches are minimal and it was reported to proper authorities of their own volition.

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TXWayne t1_j41wbmv wrote

Yep, been cleared for 42 years and was a military special agent while I was in for a period of time so I get it. Just chafes me because I saw the lower level of folks get hammered for this kind of stupid stuff, and it is stupid, yet higher ranking folks get off with a slap on the wrist. Not just for mishandling classified but for many things. But everyone keep the downvotes coming, my statement was not political at all, notice I specifically said "No politician of any flavor should get special treatment."

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Yotsubato t1_j43m3qq wrote

I wouldn’t be surprised if every past president has had files like this in their homes

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Larsaf t1_j42cq3s wrote

Okay, fine, Republicans. You can have President Harris if you insist on it.

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jlaw54 t1_j45hp1w wrote

Why run an 80 year old in 2024 anyway. Biden could resign and quickly solve that problem. Then the Dems can decide to run Harris or another.

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blahbleh112233 t1_j463v5z wrote

Why run someone who would threaten boomer supremacy when you'll vote for Biden anyways?

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jlaw54 t1_j46ubns wrote

I voted for Biden once and that’s all he will ever get out of me.

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kyoko9 t1_j422zr7 wrote

We all knew he was a little forgetful, but this is just embarrassing.

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KaisarDragon t1_j43y54g wrote

Comparing this to Trump is like saying they "both committed crimes" when one jaywalked and the other murdered a guy...

Also, I'd like to return this story, you forgot the onions.

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jlaw54 t1_j45huj7 wrote

Biden had Top Secret unsecured. It’s bad. Forget what trump did and set it aside. Just evaluate it on the merits. Lot of people looking like hypocrites and dying on an unnecessary hill. Bad look. I’m non conservative, but Jesus Christ this is sad.

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KaisarDragon t1_j47162a wrote

I'll take having them, immediately contacting the archives, and handing them over ANY DAY.

You know, following protocol for it.

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jlaw54 t1_j473rog wrote

Except this completely ignores the non-protocol and incompetency leading to it being mishandled and stored improperly for years. It’s willful blindness. “But now they are handling it properly” isn’t the point here. It’s that it occurred IN MULTIPLE INSTANCES and led to documents in multiple locations. That’s not ok.

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KaisarDragon t1_j47br8r wrote

He didn't even know he had any. As soon as he did, he gave them up. It is hard to claim he should have taken precautions about secret docs when he knows, and assumed, he had none to begin with.

And again, as soon as he knew, he notified.

This is fucking Fang Fang all over again, isn't it?

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jlaw54 t1_j47d0pl wrote

I'll stay calm here and kindly explain again. Him not knowing he had classified in his possession IS THE ISSUE. He was the VP and hit was his staff. He and / or his staff mishandling and improperly storing the classified is on Joe Biden. Not anyone else. It is his responsibility and he is responsible for his staff. His NEED TO KNOW is the reason that the classified was in his and / or his staff's possession. You being solely focused on the fact they reported it once found completely and willfully ignores the mishandling and incompetence on him and his staff's part that got the classified in these PRIVATE spaces in the first place. Thank you.

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[deleted] t1_j41rcjt wrote

[deleted]

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spaghoni t1_j4259jv wrote

Imagine getting downvoted for insulting that kid sniffing piece of shit. I hated Trump with every fiber of my being but that doesn't mean I have to embrace his replacement rapist racist warmongering alzheimers patient. Fuck Joe Biden and his entire fucking family. I'd like to see the entire Trump and Biden families exiled to Epstein Island with nothing but a box of swords.

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