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GetlostMaps t1_j3yek4e wrote

Reply to comment by InflamedLiver in Amid recruiting crisis, Army makes new companies for recruits who don't meet academic, fitness standards by GaryOaksAlcoholism

Seems entirely reasonable. It's a sad indictment on the education system and society as a whole, but if you have standards society isn't providing, you gotta do it yourself.

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InflamedLiver t1_j3yjixj wrote

keep in mind, it's not exactly like every soldier has to be the perfect cross of Albert Einstein and an olympic athlete either. The military still needs people who are content mopping floors, replacing lightbulbs, and moving gear from point A to point B.

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RedditModsRLazy t1_j3yopb7 wrote

That is a huge percentage of the army

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faste30 t1_j41w8i7 wrote

Really all of the armed services. I know everyone makes fun of POGs, the Chair Force, etc, but I knew a bunch of marines that never even left the continental US and had a logistics job, etc.

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UpbeatCheetah7710 t1_j422ump wrote

Ah yes, the rules of keeping busy in the Army. Find something and move it. If it won’t move, paint it. If you can’t paint it find something else and move it. Otherwise you get a quick trip to the most mundane detail the ol’ butterbar has brewed up for the day.

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bobby11c t1_j3zksfv wrote

Naw, just combat arms.

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RedditModsRLazy t1_j3zkxsc wrote

Man I was in water pur, fuel, laundry shower and then mortuary affairs… maybe it’s all of us?

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bobby11c t1_j4024h5 wrote

Could be. But I definitely felt like they treated the infantry, well like infants.

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Sir-Kevly t1_j3z32op wrote

They already let some incredibly dumb people in. Young people just aren't signing up because they aren't willing to vaporize Afghani children for $40k a year.

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6disc_cdchanger t1_j3z6zr5 wrote

$40k? More like $20k for a junior enlisted service member

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Manawski_ t1_j410zbm wrote

Base pay, sure. If they're calculating in BAS/BAH, then 40k isn't far off.

If it were a true apples-to-apples like some fresh out of high school retail worker making 23k was going up against our hypothetical E-1 buddy to rent an apartment off-base (highly improbable that an E-1 ends up off-base but let's just play the game here), the E-1 is going to all of the sudden have a whole lot of tax-free BAH money to pay rent where the civilian can go kick rocks.

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Paladoc t1_j41cvph wrote

In a nigh infinitesimal number of cases would BAH/BAS be approved for an E-1, but you can calculate like a third of that rate, as they do get fed and housed, just sometimes in 24 man bays or 4-6 man rooms.

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monogreenforthewin t1_j41wdak wrote

just sometimes in 24 man bays or 4-6 man rooms.

that's really only in training or deployment scenarios. stateside, i never had more than two soldiers to a room in the barracks.

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Paladoc t1_j44nq9q wrote

Yep, why I said sometimes. Someone shouldn't be an E1 for that long post boot

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[deleted] t1_j3zbh2a wrote

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[deleted] t1_j3zcfdu wrote

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PMMEYOURCOOLDRAWINGS t1_j3zcxdh wrote

You can make more hourly at a Wendy’s. My god.

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[deleted] t1_j3zeowi wrote

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I_Have_Run_Amok t1_j3zhxvo wrote

Exactly. With the exception of snacks, cell phone, and internet you can get away with no other recurring expenses. If you're smart you can put away a decent amount of money.

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usedTP t1_j4057tq wrote

We had an E5 who got out with $20k 30 years ago. He lived like a monk and only bought toiletries.

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[deleted] t1_j3zewp7 wrote

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dingos8mybaby2 t1_j3zg69j wrote

Well you technically don't have to if you are fine with doing some time in a military prison, possibly a handful of years. I doubt that refusal to deploy or desertion would be met with execution in today's world unless it's during an invasion of the U.S. or something else very dire.

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6disc_cdchanger t1_j3zcgoe wrote

https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/money-pay.html

I’ve been out for a decade, so I was a little off. $21,999 annually for E-1 (private)

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PMMEYOURCOOLDRAWINGS t1_j3zcrrg wrote

Man that number needs to be higher. No wonder they are having an enlistment problem. I had a national guard guy try to convince me to enlist in the officer corps after meeting him at a blood drive I was working at. Then I noticed him asking everyone lol.

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bad-autocorrect-bot t1_j40kbx2 wrote

Im barely surviving, and i make more than that, why the fuck would anyone want to do that?? Seriously, we dedicate hundreds of billions to our military and they dont even pay a living wage...

Are other branches any better?

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Manawski_ t1_j40x6sk wrote

What is your amount for a "living wage" when the following are provided:

1.) Housing (Either housing on base or tax-free Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH))

2.) Food (Either on-base food or tax-free Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS))

3.) Healthcare (100% coverage free of charge)

4.) GI Bill

5.) Pension plan

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Hammerpamf t1_j411guz wrote

People are forgetting all of this. I was stationed at Ft. Carson. The average monthly rent in Colorado Springs is $1500, monthly health insurance premium $370, food for 1 $300.

That's 24k a year in benefits without considering the GI bill. Some states, like Illinois, will also pay for 4 years of tuition/fees to CC and state schools. Illinois does this with the IVG (Illinois veterans grant).

My 4 years of service was well worth it.

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Paladoc t1_j41d2r0 wrote

Texas has Hazelwood, you enter as a Texas resident, you get 120 hours of college at public schools covered, in addition to GI Bill

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IntincrRecipe t1_j40o2g1 wrote

No, pay is standardized across all branches. The usual rebuttal that leadership and the DoD as a whole gives is along the lines of “WeLl YoU gEt BeNeFiTs On ToP oF tHaT lIkE hOuSiNg, MeDiCaL, aNd DeNtAl, So StOp CoMpLaInInG.”

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No-Entertainer-2862 t1_j40o345 wrote

Coast Guard here and most of my friends and family have some military affiliation.bthe other branches are no better. Thankfully the medical benefits and housing helps a lot so there is a lot of variance depending on a lot of factors.

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Hammerpamf t1_j411ng8 wrote

Because you don't have to pay for rent, health insurance, food, or college?

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SteveHeist t1_j40nhw3 wrote

Probably not. Federal job, federal minimum wage.

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HumanConsideration61 t1_j43esfb wrote

The fuck are you talking about? The taliban/ISIS were the one putting ordinance and shit on their women and children and detonating it in crowds. You sound like a 12 year old who asschugged bullshit propaganda and thinks war is some Fortnite lobby.

There is almost a divine sense of ironic idiocy to think that the guys who were trying to kill the sick fucks who were abusing women and children were somehow the ones doing that shit. I can guarantee my fucking life that the soldiers who have to live with killing a kid sleep a LOT worse than the bastards who strapped bombs to them. Or beat them. Or raped them. Or poured boiling fucking water on them. Or stoned them.

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Omegalazarus t1_j3zyfss wrote

Trust me bro, that's the part of the army you want to actually be in when it comes down to it

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Nazamroth t1_j3zze0k wrote

Hey thats me! Whenever i played squad or hell let loose, i was pretty useless in combat... But man, our bases were drowning in supplies and reinforcements.

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zencat420 t1_j3ynntx wrote

Just sad they have to have an internal training program to get them up to that standard, public education is sadly lacking in this area.

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ironroad18 t1_j3zlflb wrote

They had a similar program for the Army and Marines during the Vietnam-era draft, so nothing new. If recruits were overweight, injured, or couldn't meet certain standards they would cycle them through special training regiments before integrating them into a regular training unit.

However, there weren't as many obese people in the 1960s-70s, as there are today.

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bluelion70 t1_j40u7v3 wrote

Public education can’t do anything for people who refuse to utilize the resources available to them. In 10 years, 80% of my current students will be on Reddit whining how they were never taught anything in school and it’s so unfair and education is so shitty. None of them will actually take responsibility for the decisions and choices that led them to actively disrupt their own education and the educations of everyone around them on a daily basis.

Public education works great, for children whose parents have taught them to value learning, curiosity, and reading. It can’t do anything for children whose parents gave them a tablet at age 2, and then stuck them in the corner to play games, in order to avoid the actual work of parenting.

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Stravven t1_j41nw4l wrote

Not to mention people for administrative jobs. And you don't need to be in tip top shape to sit behind a desk.

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dogeheroic t1_j3ytz3w wrote

You don't really come across mensa candidates through the ranks.

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Half_Cent t1_j3z1k0i wrote

There are just as many smart enlisted as any other population. I went through 18 months of grueling training to operate a nuclear plant on an aircraft carrier.

Your comment is ignorant and demeaning to those who have served.

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madmaxjr t1_j3zhsqm wrote

Moreover, I’ve met my share of general- and field-grade officers, and one can immediately tell that 9/10 times they’re very intelligent

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Acnat- t1_j3zkazm wrote

I wouldn't say I lose any sleep over it, but it is refreshing to hear someone point this out against stereotypes lol Been a pretty competent industrial electrician for around a decade now, had a gt in the mid 120s when I enlisted, and literally got laughed at by my recruiter when I asked if I qualified to go infantry. Plenty of knuckle draggers and big dumb animal environments to be sure (admittedly more so than not) but folks are always surprised to hear that I know plenty of grunts who transitioned into shit like filmmaking, culinary arts, psychology, and at least one engineer. Might be a very unique community and set of circumstances, but the military is still just a sample size of the general population, even down to the line units.

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Omegalazarus t1_j3zywhm wrote

To say that they are just as many smart people in the enlisted cohort as in any other population division is definitely incorrect.

Hell it's even provable why the numbers. Grab an infantry squad and check their GT scores now go to I don't know like an ivy league school. Grab some doctoral candidates and Give them the ASVAB and check their GT scores.

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dogeheroic t1_j3z2ph4 wrote

USN ET. I went through A school, C school and some additional training. I speak from experience. Think about that before you decide to call someone ignorant while yourself being ignorant.

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Half_Cent t1_j3z8ar2 wrote

Then your comment was even worse. Ignorance is better than arrogance in my view, but you do you.

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CaptainPunch374 t1_j3zdq2k wrote

Using those terms as if someone who wasn't enlisted and went through the same branch would know what they mean other than having a vague notion makes you sound like the guys who slip military jargon into their everyday speech without ever having been enlisted. It's not a good look on anyone, much more so on people who actually served, because it makes the ones who don't do that look bad.

The combination of jumping down someone's throat for being ignorant about your experience while expecting them to grasp super niche terminology relating to it is definitely making an argument opposite to the one you intended, at the very least.

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Half_Cent t1_j3zhafg wrote

I went through an A school and C school so I know what they were referring to, and ET refers to their rate or job of electronics technician, but it makes it seem like they believe they were special and smarter than everyone else. In my experience there were smart people in every branch and field, and not so smart as well. Just like everywhere else I've been.

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Sir-Kevly t1_j3z3r8v wrote

Why would anyone want to be demeaning towards people who commit war crimes for a living?

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Helenium_autumnale t1_j408e3j wrote

There is no end of sophisticated machinery and systems everywhere in the military; it doesn't operate itself.

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quats5 t1_j3zjxg0 wrote

Cut education spending and give more money to the military? Just means the military will have to start picking up some of the slack.

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account_not_valid t1_j410gnk wrote

It's not a flaw, it's a feature.

Reduce education, opportunities and healthcare, and people will be thankful that they can sign up to a military that provides all those.

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SnowinMiami t1_j41kk77 wrote

Uh..no. Increase education and healthcare and you wouldn’t have senseless wars. Think about it.

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account_not_valid t1_j41pfm1 wrote

Sure, but think about the shareholders!

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SnowinMiami t1_j450hml wrote

What shareholders?! You mean arms dealers? They do not share anything.

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account_not_valid t1_j454s6y wrote

Of the military industrial complex.

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SnowinMiami t1_j46tohb wrote

Grumman Northrop has for years been selling the army on developing systems they already know won’t work but ask for additional funding anyway. Billions going to shareholders and it’s all fraud.

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Krzd t1_j41sn17 wrote

Yeah, but then a lot more will survive till retirement, that's not good for the shareholders

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monogreenforthewin t1_j41x3vj wrote

well that works for one side. no guarantee that the other side will choose education and healthcare and become less prone to violence.

that said i do think as a species if we looked out for each more (education, healthcare, and a host of other things) we'd definitely have less senseless violence.

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Numerous_Biscotti_89 t1_j42y02b wrote

Processed foods and office/sedentary jobs. Lots of weird ans shitty stuff all tangled into itself.

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Zerox_Z21 t1_j40tkl5 wrote

See, I figured it was that people who meet the educational standards increasingly have the sense to not enlist, seeing as the last few decades of war have been of questionable moral value and veterans are not looked after once they've been used.

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prefer-to-stay-anon t1_j43e6ai wrote

And people who meet the educational standards are more likely to be able to afford college, get scholarships, etc, not need GI bill benefits for healthcare, college, and homes, etc.

The benefits of the military are not as great when you already have the benefits.

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AtuinTurtle t1_j41trpz wrote

As a teacher, a kid has to give at least half of a shit before I can help them.

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faste30 t1_j41w1of wrote

Or that people who meet those standards arent interested in going into the army...

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WWDubz t1_j42219n wrote

Yes, because the US military is all about standards

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AetherBones t1_j423rsz wrote

Maybe less military budget and more taxes go to improving society, like education and information such as making internet a utility and providing it to everyone?

Currently nearly all our income tax goes to military, veterans and debt from our wars.

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wrong-mon t1_j41jwq8 wrote

It's more about the fact that the people who are physically and mentally capable simply art applying to become a soldier.

There's still a lot of people who could be American soldiers who simply aren't joining the military after years and years of meaningless war

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