The adversarial process of criminal prosecution in this country puts way too many innocent people behind bars because prosecutors have to focus on convictions rather than justice.

I spent five days in jail, wrongly accused, before they got everything straightened out. I can't even begin to fathom 25 effing years.

ITT - Redditors upvoting something not oniony at all because it’s an unfortunate occurrence that happens far too often

Podcasters are replacing the justice system like Gofundme has replaced the healthcare system

I mean, a big part of the problem is that since prosectors are elected, voter lack of concern for the difference between "we got the person who actually did it" and "we got someone the public feels good about locking up" is just as much the problem.

I was in a holding cell once that was all plexiglass and concrete. I think the air came through a crack under the door. There were 16 guys in this 16' space. I'm surprised I didn't pass out from lack of oxygen.

It was weird being a citizen one second to a piece of shit on their shoe the next. I mean, I haven't experienced that with any other situation in life. How does that level of toxic and non-empathy affect a person? I could never be a police officer after hanging out with them any length of time. It's like they have blinders on.

Me with my ADHD would experience each day like a year -- so, no, I could not handle prison. Just shoot me.

Also, yes, I was not guilty. I waited 3 years for a trial and I was going all the way and the police officer didn't show. "Flat tire." I was contemplating whether to take your acquittal and abuse served or still go on with the trial. But I didn't want to tempt fate for the jury not to see someone with a badge and think "that's an honest person." Well sure, he convinced himself maybe -- but not enough to show up to even an unfair fight.

[removed]

Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

> focus on convictions

Yeah, it's like they don't even care about your well being.

Kind of defeats all the bullshit supporting the War on drugs as well. If we actually cared about the damage of drugs, we'd be researching them and teaching the REAL effects in school -- but, that would also mean admitting they don't automatically kill you, make you insane, or addicted. A shitty life that leaves an empty hole is the reason for most addiction-- let's be honest about that.

If we wanted less crime, we'd spend more on after school programs and counseling and maybe a fucking living wage so the single parent doesn't have a kid who joins a gang because their never home or always tired.

Most crimes that are measured are what poor people do, and the things rich people do that are damaging are less investigated or actually legal. Like, donating to a candidate is LEGAL??? That's a bribe -- why are we fooling ourselves?

Most people will never have anyone do as much damage to them as ten days in jail does to a person. And about 80% of the people in jails in some cities are there because they couldn't pay the fines. Oh, we don't have debtors prisons anymore, but, most of the people in prison are poor or have learning disabilities that made their formative years hell without proper support -- and so, most of them are poor as well.

Wow, either I've been made well by a Gofundme, or, this sounds like you are saying it's broken to shit.

Me; I'm okay with that.

But that's all part of the Great American Show Trial. Much like the trial itself is a show to convince the jury of your narrative and give a f*** about what the evidence actually supports. Experts in the adversarial system are likewise engaged in a d*ck swinging contest, with frequent attempts of lawyers and prosecutors trying to out-expert the expert in cross. That's not how science properly works and it makes many a worthy expert reluctant to do that job.

What matters is that the public is entertained and gets its good vibes that someone is made to pay.

Oh please, you must have done SOMETHING to deserve getting arrested. Cops don't just go around tossing random people in jail for no reason!

/s

And yet people still think they're somehow immune from this. I've seen hundreds of news stories where the victim says something to the effect of "If it didn't happen to me, I wouldn't believe it."

Even just shit as stupid as clerical errors or mistaken identity, which, by their very nature, will only ever affect INNOCENT people!!!

You could be walking down the street minding your own business and if some cop gets a bug up his butt about you, you might not be walking away from that encounter just because he thinks you're someone else.

I always want the death penalty for people who commit the most henious crimes, like this guy:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/us/texas-athena-strand-kidnapping-christmas-present/index.html

But then I hear stories like this that reminds me that no matter what, this justice system always fails some in the worst way possible.

Did you know you could get arrested for riding your bike on the wrong side of the road?

I sure as hell didn't. Cop even dropped by my house and dropped my bike and ipod off for "since I was so nice and did everything he asked"

Spent about 10 hours in a cell like you described. It was so crowded people were sitting on the floor still touching each other. I've never felt more claustrophobic before that day.

I ended up with a super cheap ticket (like $100) and over $1,200 in fees for sitting in a holding cell. They even charged me for the apple juice and granola bar that I declined.

Jesus, the air was so thick. And the echoing noise in that place.

During one of the two hours a day I was out of my cell, this guy comes into the block and the guy next to me shouts "you're back" at him and asks how long he's in. He responded "only six months". ONLY?!?!?! Fucking hell.

I'm not saying prosecutors don't exploit the hell out of things at the expense of actual justice, I'm just saying the other side of the coin is that voters are letting them do it. Just like every politician who uses manufactered divisive issues: they're dog doo on democracies shoe, but we long as voters reward them for it, they'll keep doing it. No one is doing their jobs here.

If a couple of podcaters can do your job better, you should not have any input on who goes to jail or for how long.

They can charge you for time spent in jail?

That you DECLINED?!?!?! they are definitely for profit.

They gave me a paper breaking down the fees which were all bullshit. And granted this was maybe 12 years ago so I don't remember clearly but I remember laughing at how expensive the granola bar and pouch of apple juice were. Something like $50

Edit: just remembered, the granola bar and juice was labeled as a meal rather than a kindergarten snack and juice.

That's appalling

Serious question: Have you considered emigrating to somewhere in the Modern Developed World instead? That experience would make me look for an upgrade.

Because they are ELECTED. This is why the Modern Developed World does not elect prosecutors, police chiefs, judges etc - only shithole countries do that.

About 15 years ago I was a juror on a murder trial. I lost so much faith in our justice system after everything I experienced during that trial and the jury deliberation. I also was diagnosed with PTSD from the experience.

This doesn’t surprise me. At all.

>PTSD

:/

Unfortunately once they’re able to label you as a felon, that option is basically no longer there for you.

10/10

Appleing

I think you put far too much credit in how much people look at the sub before upvoting/downvoting.

I didn’t even realize what sub this was until your comment.

My experience differs greatly from what you describe.

Was a juror in a high profile murder trial that eventually was a 20/20 episode (complete with horrific pictures of "shotgun vs. head"). It had none of the negative things you described.

Perhaps it is very different, depending on the state one is in?

>Did you know you could get arrested for riding your bike on the wrong side of the road?

Not in a civilised country.

I’ll watch this on Netflix

Well I never claimed America was civilized.

Every day I thank god I’m not born in America

I’m sure it happens in your country too. It happens in every country.

Outside of America this is an insanely Onion headline. Podcast gets men out of jail… what criminal justice system y’all running over there.

Does it really happen more in the US than elsewhere? Googling brings up plenty of cases in Europe and Asia. One of the top results is this wiki which is obviously incomplete but does represent most countries -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases

That a podcast overturns them is seems to be uniquely American

It’s a little known fact that most jurisdictions make you pay when you’re in jail.

Thing is that North America police have painted themselves into a corner with how they treat people and how the system works. Nobody interacts with cops by choice, and the people tangentially involved in the criminal world, the most likely ones to give up information, don’t often do so voluntarily anymore.

So, you’re starting to see the impacts of this on their job performance.

Trust for cops is at an all time low so nobody offers up help anymore.

Well, as a trained biomedical scientist, I go by reports from within the community and what reports I see.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0015736892730758

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/is-an-adversarial-justice-system-compatible-with-good-science/

Ehh…again googling came up with this list at the top -> https://www.innocence.fm/

Two in US, one in UK, one in Italy. I’d need to see some real statistics to believe this is dominantly an American problem, exonerated by podcasts or otherwise

>Experts in the adversarial system are likewise engaged in a d*ck swinging contest, with frequent attempts of lawyers and prosecutors trying to out-expert the expert in cross.

So, how scientific is a "dick swinging contest"?

Or an Op Ed from the Washington Post?

Both are behind pay walls, so wasn't able to read either.

I was able to read the second article without a problem from a mobile in France, so not sure what your issue is. It has interview answers on the topic by a host of experts.

The first article has a freely available abstract

The following blog post summarizes a report by the National Academy of Sciences:

https://www.pattisblog.com/blog/general/forensic-science-a-challenge-to-the-adversarial-system/

but how can it happen in the fairest, bestest, most handsome country in the world?

yeah, it's a /s

Listened to this podcast over the summer, and was so happy with the outcome.

>:/

:/

Doesn't really fit the subreddit tbh

[deleted]

I want the fucking prosecutor’s name and address. Why the fuck are people in law enforcement community protected, they basically kidnapped two men for decades. Somebody needs to pay.

You would be in some serious [removed by Reddit] territory, and justifiably.

[removed]

97% of cases end with a plea deal where the person admits some wrong and over 90% of the remaining cases which go to trial end up with a conviction on at least one charge.

If a cop arrests you in America, you WILL go to jail and then prison unless you can plea your way to some kind of community service type punishment

Right? Why are these hypocrites seemingly immune to the very accountability they dish out to others????

Because no well-meaning vigilante has made them pay the price yet. We both know that the only thing that should be done are the kind of things that we can’t discuss here. These would be old, likely retired men by now. Something like the golf course scene in the movie “falling down” comes to mind…

Not just cops, judges too!

https://youtu.be/Te0FXDN7kV0

Some guy took pictures of an elderly couple's hibiscus plants and showed it to the police. And somehow, the police failed to recognize it wasn't cannabis, despite supposedly being trained to recognize cannabis.

So they went to a judge to get a warrant. And somehow, the judge saw photographs of a hibiscus plant and decided to grant a warrant for cannabis (WTF???).

So they raided the house and it somehow took the cops 4.5 hours to figure out that the plants they were staring at wasn't pot. And somehow, the cops seized the plants anyway, despite filing no charges.

What kind of clown show are they running in that city where NOBODY in that entire chain-of-command could tell the difference between pot and flowers?????

>"I'm starting to understand why a lot of the public do not trust police officers. And I'm starting to see a lot on TV that I had always thought 'no, you had to be wrong because the police wouldn't make such a bad mistake'...yeah they would."

There's always the chance the prosecutor drops the charges (usually the day before the trial they've spent weeks/months pursuing and claiming to be ready for) because they have no evidence and hoped you'd just take a plea...

Literally forcing you into debt.

"We turned a $100 fine into a $1200 burden. Enjoy your apple juice, fuckface. You may as well drink it, because you're getting a bill either way."

Hey, Germany prosecutes bedridden 97-year-olds for their involvement in the Holocaust, so why can't we go after a cop that framed someone 25 years ago?

And human nature being what it is, if this cop had ANY brains, he'd be terrified that the victim or their friends/family might "pay him a visit" someday. I hope he's spent the past 25 years looking over his shoulder. But it would be equally satisfying to see his face when karma unexpectedly shows up in his golden years to repay him for what he (until now) THOUGHT he got away with...

You’re not wrong. Although if you’re gonna prosecute the secretary, then there are plenty of American troops and contractors who are complicit in war crimes.

And, I’m definitely not talking about legal recourse in my previous comment.

> And, I’m definitely not talking about legal recourse in my previous comment.

After being shown firsthand how broken the legal system is, I'm honestly shocked there aren't more cases of vigilante justice.

I mean, why would you seek recourse from within the very system that screwed you over in the first place?? That's like catching your spouse in bed with someone else and then asking your spouse for relationship advice!!!!

The very fact that you need to seek recourse proves that you can't trust the system...because if you could, you'd have no need for recourse to begin with!!!

Completely agree. The only way to fix it is to fight outside the system. The supreme court is corrupt and broken at the top so why even use legal means?

because unlike us, they're willing to kill.

Who's more likely to kill someone:

Me with a joint? Or a cop with a gun?

Mmk. My phone isn't loading all the article so maybe I'm missing the answer to this, but how can people who talk in a microphone for hours found a way to release two men falsely accused or murder?

In a civilised country, bikes have their own lanes

Last year I was a juror on a triple murder case. After that experience, I told my wife that I hope we never need to rely on the police or justice system to find justice. Utter complete fucking failures every step of the way.

It was honestly embarrassing to watch the homicide detectives on the stand demonstrate their complete incompetence and negligence.

1 in 8 death row prisoners has been exonerated, and that probably means more than that are innocent.

And that was a good trial, because you actually got to see the incompetence and negligence :(

Isn't that the plot of Brazil?

I'm not sure I can emigrate to Canada and all I have is a misdemeanor for driving way too fast in Virginia.

They should sue the fucking state.

"Guilty" doesn't mean you did it. Guilty just means that 12 people were convinced by a prosecutor that you did it - whether you did it or not. That's why I no longer support the death penalty. No prosecutor ever has said they convicted the wrong man/woman. If they took responsibility for their fuck-ups they'd have to commit suicide to make things right.

>They even charged me for the apple juice and granola bar that I declined.

You need to report a robbery.

Seems like that's a conflict of interest for justice to be impartial.

Wow, they'd make the hospital ER blush.

I've always thought it was safer to SEE the traffic coming my way so I can avoid the cars due to the fact that we've got crap for bike paths in our state.

Seriously -- I almost got arrested for having expired tags. Got pulled over, cop saw I had a book on marijuana and he decided right then he was going to arrest me. He got a K9 unit to "smell" drugs on my car and the proceeded to search my vehicle where he "found" a broken pipe. Then spent the next 90 minutes trying to get me to admit the pipe was mine. Eventually let me go without even writing a ticket when he realized I wasn't going to budge.

Then, despite 10 cops being involved in this incident, there was absolutely no record of the stop.

Felonies are a problem if emigrating to Canada. Misdemeanours are ok.

Brought to you by the same people who elected Marjorie Taylor Greene...twice.

"hello police? I've just been robbed"

"the perpetrator? Oh its you guys".

But it's all about stats not just for them but the department too.

That's a murkkka

Not true. Maybe Canadia, they're insanely strict up there.