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[deleted] t1_ir94kfj wrote

Reply to comment by Mecharonin in Robots are making French fries faster, better than humans by DaveOJ12

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Mecharonin t1_ir95oll wrote

Maybe we could come up with a better economic system or something.

Or we could bring all technological progress to a screeching halt because it's easier to be a machine smashing luddite than to work towards meaningful social progress.

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MageLocusta t1_ir97ujl wrote

The thing is though, 'social progress' took a long time to actually happen when factories were created.

All the victorian problems regarding overcrowding, malnutrition, and disease actually happened from the event when factories were created up to the end of the 19th century (and the majority of the victims weren't stubborn luddites (which went away quickly because you can't rebel when you're starving), but the factory workers who did everything they were 'supposed to'). And at LEAST the factory owners were subject to local laws then (and aren't like the sweatshop factories owned by international companies like Unilever, Boy, and Hugo Boss where if something happens--they can just shrug and walk away without paying a single fine.

The very reason why social (<---key word here) progress even happened was BECAUSE our US and UK government hit back on those factory & mine owners like a ton of bricks. We didn't ask companies nicely to stop hiring 9 year olds. Instead we banned them outright. We didn't ask companies nicely to stop using company scrip instead of a salary, we had to outright ban it and threaten to put them out of business. And sadly we live in a world now where no one wants to go hard against companies because they'd rather take the money and do nothing.

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guygeneric t1_irakfmo wrote

That is a very simplistic understanding of the labor history of the US and UK. Social progress wasn't made "because our governments hit the factory and mine owners like a ton of bricks". Those governments have historically been on the side of the companies, usually just acting straight-up as tools and weapons for the capitalists. It wasn't until the working class in those countries became highly organized and militant, and threatened revolutionary action against both the government and the capitalists (backed up by the successful example of the Russian revolution) that critical segments of the political and economic leadership decided it was better to make concessions than to risk being overthrown.

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MageLocusta t1_irbbo62 wrote

You know what? You're right--it really is very simplistic.

We have tried the 'soft touch' with past factories and mines (especially by trying to impose factory inspectors--which the UK had deliberately screwed up with their 1833 Factory Act where they only hired four factory inspectors to inspect the entire country's factories). But sadly it wasn't just us campaigning and protesting--it was also the government (moral) panic of realising that children were becoming completely ignorant of religion because of lack of schooling (and apparently also women becoming 'loose' from working in mines and factories). But it truly did take a long time for this to even happen, which is definitely why I personally don't feel confident that replacing jobs with robots would create any social progress. Because weaving machines sure as hell didn't.

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Wiley_Applebottom t1_ir9ojux wrote

Yo, retail prices literally went up in tandem with self checkout. So none of the benefits and all of the problems are happening at this current moment.

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8-36 t1_ir992m0 wrote

Damn, criticizing social problems automation WILL create is somehow anti progress?

I would even criticize the fucking comical robot hand to be retrofitted to a french fry station instead of coming up with a more efficient and better solution to fry that shit.

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MageLocusta t1_ir9763y wrote

Honestly, we've just witnessed companies getting rid of people anyway regardless if we have machines to replace them (at the expense of customers and their workers).

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Tesco literally hemorrhages money because they use sh_tty financial software (my SO works in assisting multiple companies with their accounting software, and Tesco's notorious in his workplace because they refuse to pay for new updates and constantly have a new accountant every 6 months), plus they have problematic self-checkout machines which can be manipulated if you take the price tag off (I've literally seen kids rip the barcode off a magazine, put it on the scales, and then add it onto their purchase as an 'onion'. And the harried human worker doesn't notice because he/she often has to help 2-3 customers at the same time while collecting baskets and calling out to people if they're paying cash or debit card. Tesco doesn't give a sh_t because they'd rather lose money than pay for salaries to create an efficient and fast customer service--and I'm sure there's PLENTY of companies/restaurants exactly like this.

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Like I absolutely get your point (hell, I absolutely support your opinion) but literally everybody is running their business to the ground without the use of robots (and trust me, being worked to the breaking point really does make its workers apathetic (and then you have to make sure that you don't accidentally burn/injure yourself as you're told to rush around because there's only three people working in the entire store/restaurant/plant/etc).

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Like, I'm sure that even my job would be replaced (I was supposed to be a regular admin. Now I'm replacing financial administrators and am doing the work of three people without even a pay rise). But I know that i'd be worked to the very bone until they fire me for a robot (and when the robot f_cks up, the university won't care as long as the backlog of tasks 'eventually' get picked up in a month or so. I'm in a university building that had two elevators breakdown, and our management hasn't fixed it in a month--they just tell the disabled students to 'study' in the lower ground floors and completely ignored our students' comments on having to attend classes on the upper floors).

We'd definitely need someone to step in and put a stop on the reckless financial practices of companies. Because the majority of the people who control our commerce, job market and rest of society are used to running their businesses like slumlords.

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