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SmokinJunipers t1_j7umjim wrote

Capitalism isn't working for them either. Less food in the sea, we need to take down these dams and do other things to boost salmon numbers.

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Shot-Spray5935 t1_j7v9mss wrote

That's what happens when you remove borders between oceans and allow those Indian ocean and South China Sea guys swim around.

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derycksan71 t1_j7vjx07 wrote

You mean the dams built by the US Army Corps of Engineers? Or the ones run by BC Hydro. I know it's cool to bash capitalism here but ffs, these hydro electric dams that block salmon spawning from CA to Alaska are primarily built and owned by the state, not "capitalism"

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HelenAngel t1_j7vlywn wrote

I personally am a fan of the salmon cannons here in the PNW that allow for both hydro power & keep salmon healthy. Apparently the salmon enjoy it as well.

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LePouletMignon t1_j7vw20t wrote

>these hydro electric dams that block salmon spawning from CA to Alaska are primarily built and owned by the state, not "capitalism"

Yes, and? Nation states are some of the most hardcore capitalists lol.

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madhatmatt2 t1_j8067vh wrote

Yes,and? A socialist or communist country has the ability to dam rivers too not sure why this being blamed on capitalism and not lack of environmental education and disregard for the long term effects of not giving a shit about the consequences of our actions.

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derycksan71 t1_j7w5hnd wrote

So public ownership of the resources and production of services...is capitalism? These are blended markets, some aspects such as publicly owned utilities, are implementation of socialism. It's not a negative.

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LePouletMignon t1_j7ww3fj wrote

>So public ownership of the resources and production of services...is capitalism?

Just because something is owned by the state does not mean it isn't a part of some capitalist scheme. The state is an actor like everyone else that is free to engage in capitalist endeavours. There are countless infrastructures that don't benefit the public in any way even though, on paper, the public "owns" these structures.

The state is often a key perpetrator in processes involving extracting capital and resources while providing nothing in return for the local communities. This is called extractivism and is as far away from socialism as you can get.

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jspangles313 t1_j7wvo6m wrote

Yeah but something something Europe comrade Bernie Sanders both sides bad.

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[deleted] t1_j7wamsx wrote

The guy you're responding to is the type to go burn down a small business and then claim they "stuck it to the man" without realizing they just ruined another middle class person's life.

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Ritz527 t1_j7wuf4j wrote

Kind of tired of this braindead "everything bad is capitalism" circlejerk Reddit has. As if public services don't regularly fuck shit up lol.

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littlebirdori t1_j7yj39h wrote

Why do they fuck things up though? I'd wager the answer is usually to reduce expenses and generate more revenue, both of which are aims of capitalism.

Hospitals and utility companies are supposed to be "public goods." As it turns out, market pressures incentivizing these entities to profit unconditionally from a populace utterly dependent on their services isn't very good for the public.

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geckobrother t1_j7v2oql wrote

The dams aren't killing the salmon. It's the rising global temperature.

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TheBalrogofMelkor t1_j7v5z22 wrote

Dams reduce how much of their breeding streams the salmon can access. Warming streams mean less oxygen for the eggs as well, and overfishing is yet another factor.

Dams definitely hurt them though

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geckobrother t1_j7v73vw wrote

They do, but over the last 50 years, we've developed vastly better dams and systems to help offset their effects. I wouldn't say dams don't reduce salmon population, but it's I'm the 5-10% range, as opposed to global warming which has pushed the 15-20% mark already, and is likely to continue to increase.

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Throw-a-Ru t1_j7w8jql wrote

>They do, but over the last 50 years, we've developed vastly better dams and systems to help offset their effects.

We have the technology, sure, but that doesn't mean that old dams were retrofitted, nor does it mean that the new technology was installed properly. For instance, at least one dam I know of has a salmon ladder that's easily 100' above the water line.

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geckobrother t1_j7wrpm8 wrote

Depends on the state. Where I live (Oregon), we do retrofit. But we're a pretty pro-fish and nature state.

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Akasadanahamayarawa t1_j7w9xek wrote

I mean… its both. After dams are removed Salmon populations skyrocket as does biodiversity and general natural health of the area as keystone species can now spawn further and die upstream. Not to mention steelhead populations.

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geckobrother t1_j7wruvw wrote

Yes, dams kill some. But that amount (with technology and design) has shrunk dramatically, and global warming fish issues have just kept on rising.

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Picolete t1_j7v5ii4 wrote

It's the chinese predating the seas

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geckobrother t1_j7v5s7p wrote

China doesn't really hunt whales. Japan still does, though.

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Picolete t1_j7v6q8b wrote

Im not talking about whales, im talking about whale food

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geckobrother t1_j7v7mup wrote

Ah, gotcha. Japan still outstrips them there, too, sadly. And China still isn't even on the top 10 salmon producers. It's almost all Norway and Chile.

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yukon-flower t1_j7wgiil wrote

I see this but about Japanese whaling a lot but without reference to what whales are being caught (and how much or little they are endangered species), nor what other whaling countries are doing.

It’s not like Japan is harvesting Great Blues on the daily. They’re mostly little guys only a few feet long, or smaller.

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geckobrother t1_j7wt7x5 wrote

I mean, not many other countries whale at at. Canada, Iceland, Japan, Norway, Russia, South Korea, the United States and the Danish dependencies of the Faroe Islands and Greenland are the only ones that do in modern times. Most of those are aboriginal whaling as well, meaning done by the natives of the lands. Commercial hunting is only done by Norway, Japan, Iceland, and South Korea.

Japan and Norway constitute 82% of that commercial whaling roughly.

Blue whales, as of now, are not hunted. The Internationak Whaling Commission has had a moratorium on hunting them and other great whales since 1985.

So yeah, its mostly Japan and Norway lol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling

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yukon-flower t1_j7wtwc3 wrote

Yep, exactly. Japan is not alone and they are not whaling endangered species. People overblow it.

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geckobrother t1_j7wve10 wrote

They're not aline, they're one of 2 really. It is a bit overblown, but most of the species are either threatened or near threatened, depending on the list. It's not great to over hunt them, which is why the IWC was made. Most whales are on the road to recovery, which is good.

As I said, it's a bit overblown, but people tend to get that way about conservation

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