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macross1984 t1_j5gwbmd wrote

Hope Poland will follow through and ship their batch of Leopard tank to Ukraine soon.

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Brave_Conflict465 OP t1_j5h1hq9 wrote

They were likely to follow through even if they didn't get the green light from Germany. They are happy to do anything they can to hamstring the Russian invasion, and put themselves in position to receive newer, more advanced equipment in the process.

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leywok t1_j5h2it2 wrote

They already signed contracts to purchase and build Korean tanks; so they can dump the Leopards .

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Brave_Conflict465 OP t1_j5h3ea0 wrote

And M1A1 Abrams https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/01/04/poland-signs-deal-to-buy-2nd-batch-of-us-abrams-tanks/

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leywok t1_j5h4ccf wrote

To friends in need you just say “how much and how fast do you need it” not, “fill out a request in triplicate, I’ll check stock and let you know after the war. “ The Germans are anal about records and record keeping.

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Mothrahlurker t1_j5hyiga wrote

>“how much and how fast do you need it” not, “fill out a request in triplicate, I’ll check stock and let you know after the war. “

Because that is a very fair representation of not even submitting any export request at all, not even contacting the relevant authority.

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BoringBob84 t1_j5hloqd wrote

I think that the Germans are very justified in being careful about getting involved in war.

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leywok t1_j5hnsbd wrote

Some countries, Germany foremost, France and even the US are playing the game so that Ukraine doesn’t win nor Russia, basically another Donbas wall. In all the statements “ we’re with Ukraine till the end” NOTHING is mentioned. ‘We’re with Ukraine till they win”. That’s a big difference, mostly Ukrainian deaths. The US’ (I’m a US citizen) main goal is to ruin Russia’s capacity to wage war for 20-40 years to come. If I was Ukraine I would not waste precious lives on moonscape territory but focus on Crimea. Poland will have almost 800 new tanks plus the surplus currently. You couple the M1s and the Korean tanks with A-10s (again US surplus) and Ukraine will be safe without Germany’s umbrella (or full NATO protection). Germany can go back on building BMWs and not pay their 2% share (not expected to happen till at least 2024).

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Limp_Agency161 t1_j5jd6c8 wrote

Lord another dumbfuck American thinking they know how the world works while unironically giving war advice to the Ukrainians.

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leywok t1_j5jgcxf wrote

These “dumb fucks” are paying for everything we’re gleefully sending to Ukraine. I’m giving advice to other dumb fucks on Reddit not Ukraine.

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Mothrahlurker t1_j5hykde wrote

>They were likely to follow through even if they didn't get the green light from Germany.

That was just political posturing.

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spaceman757 t1_j5h8ehg wrote

> They are happy to do anything they can to hamstring the Russian invasion, and put themselves in position to receive newer, more advanced equipment in the process.

In addition to that, we (I'm an expat living in Poland) have a ton of Ukrainian refugees here that would love to be able to go home and start to get some normalcy back in their lives.

This would help them to be able to accomplish that and would also take a large burden off of the Polish systems.

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Brave_Conflict465 OP t1_j5h9xe6 wrote

Absolutely, Poland has taken on a great deal of the humanitarian aid needed with so many being forced from their homes. I certainly didn't mean to make it sound as though this decision was entirely self serving, just that it makes good sense.

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spaceman757 t1_j5ipdee wrote

No worries. I didn't take it that way, even though that's likely a big part of the decision to do so.

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[deleted] t1_j5h91hh wrote

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Brave_Conflict465 OP t1_j5hemwc wrote

A much easier road if Germany chooses to make them available. My understanding is that most of the other countries that have expressed a willingness to send Leopards, would likely be able to provide munitions, and spare parts also. Not an endless supply, but enough to get the ball rolling anyway.

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[deleted] t1_j5i1o2b wrote

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macross1984 t1_j5i4hw2 wrote

If what you say is the fact then a lot of information is left out from media as most people outside of Germany lack information you have.

- not one single country has actually asked Germany for permission to export LEO2s to Ukraine.

This one I have seen from several comments but none of them provided source or link. If you have it please provide as it would help your point of view.

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Sage_Nein t1_j5izly2 wrote

>- not one single country has actually asked Germany for permission to export LEO2s to Ukraine.

For weeks now, the German government has been asked at the federal press conference, if such a request had been filed. Last friday, the speaker again reiterated "I have no information about an official request" - here is the relevant part of the press conference, in German though.

Some other points from that press conference:

  • The German government never linked Leopard deliveries to US tank deliveries.
  • There were no informal talks about tanks between Poland and Germany - which would usually happen before a request.
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macross1984 t1_j5izznl wrote

Thank you for providing details that I was not aware.

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and_dont_blink t1_j5kmk83 wrote

This isn't really genuine, it was PR. Poland and the USA have been asking for armor and tanks sincr the start of the war, which Germany denied. They eventually capitulated and said "ok instead of German tanks, send older Soviet stock and we will reimburse you with German tanks, but none will go to Ukraine." They didn't follow through.

Then when Poland and the USA and others (the USA and dutch split the costs to send 90 refurbed tanks, etc) pushed the issue Germany starts acting like it was all a misunderstanding because some paperwork wasn't filed. It's egregious and transparent, it would be like your bank manager telling you they coukdnt possibly gove you a loan, then when asked by the media saying they hadn't actually applied for the loan. Germany was clear publicly and again, even setup an entire program to avoid it.

When the European parliament told them to send the heavy armor, and France, they told the press it was the first they'd heard of it. LoL

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and_dont_blink t1_j5klq5m wrote

>Germany has repeatedly said they would give permission, Poland just hasn't actually bothered to ask for permission yet...

No, they haven't funwithtentacles. They've said the exact opposite. Please provide one link that isn't from the last day or so where Germany has said it is OK with anyone sending German tanks into Ukraine. One link. It should be easy, except you won't be able to because it is a lie.

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[deleted] t1_j5mt4un wrote

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and_dont_blink t1_j5mu2yo wrote

...there's nothing to turn around, and you're being disingenuous funwithtentacles. Germany was incredibly clear going back to April of 2022 it wouldn't allow German heavy armor to be used in Ukraine.

This whole "well they never actually sent a written request" is broken thinking when there were talks private and public leading to Germany coming up with the plan to agree to backstop those who only sent soviet era armor because they wouldn't allow German armor. To anyone paying actual attention what you're saying is just nonsense.

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