edwinthowaway t1_j4wn1nj wrote
Reply to comment by Megraptor in 4-year-old whale of one of the world's rarest species is "likely to die" after becoming heavily entangled, NOAA says - CBS News by Simple_Opossum
> Anyways, it's funny to me how much finger pointing there is about this issue. "No it's Canada!" "No it's the high speed boats!" "No it's the cargo ships!" "Stop trying to blame honest lobster fishermen!"
I mean, boat collisions are a documented cause of right whale death, and Canadians fish lobster, too. Surely those potential causes for right whale death should also be addressed.
> Worse though, using colors by communities means that other communities may use the same color and pattern, so there is no way to actually tie ropes with buoys back to the US... Or Canada. And that's how they are technically correct when they say "American gear hadn't killed any North Atlantic Right Whales." It's not been tied back to American gear because it can't be.
That's just not true. In Sept 2020, new marking requirements went into effect that will make is clear if entangled fishing gear comes from Maine: https://www.maine.gov/dmr/sites/maine.gov.dmr/files/docs/2020%20Gear%20Marking%20Requirements%204.27.20%20(1).pdf
Also, it's not like other fisheries use more identifiable equipment. The fact is you can't link the deaths to any specific fishery.
Megraptor t1_j4wrx5o wrote
The thing about boat/ship collisions is that those are already being addressed with reroutes and speed restrictions. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you don't hear the shipping industry complaining and getting politicians involved.
Old gear is still out there, and the data they are arguing with is from before 2020. It's from 2012. This is the paper I see cited a lot-
Author put out a newer paper in 2022 too, but even then the data is only until 2011.
https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/csp2.12736
So while yes, lines have to be marked now, the data is all before this change and that's what the state and lobster fishermen are using to argue that it isn't US fisheries. It also doesn't change that there still are unmarked or unidentifiable lines out there- but these mean that if anything, we should err on the side of caution until we can actually get good data on where gear is coming from, not continue to let Maine fish in protected areas while blaming other states/countries/industries.
edwinthowaway t1_j4wue8i wrote
> The thing about boat/ship collisions is that those are already being addressed with reroutes and speed restrictions. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you don't hear the shipping industry complaining and getting politicians involved.
I promise they are not happy and they are likely lobbying as well. Still, I have yet to see them called out as the lobster industry has. The Monterey Bay Aquarium isn't telling us to avoid stuff shipped by boat.
The lobster industry has also made changes, adding weak links to allow whales to break free more easily and sinking lines. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you seem to think that's good enough for ships.
> Old gear is still out there
Citation? According to my link, they have to use marked lines after Sept 1, 2022: "By September 1, 2020 all gear must be marked with the purple and green marks referenced above"
But your post implied that they are deliberately avoiding marking their gear so as to avoid it ever being traced back to the Maine lobster industry. That is not true. If this whale was harmed by Maine gear, the purple marks should make that evident.
Megraptor t1_j4x3kak wrote
Shipping industry was called out back when this all started, that's why. Back in the 2000s and early 2010s. Shipping collisions aren't unique to the NARWs either, so the government and environmental groups have been on shipping in general since... The 80s? I think that's about when talk about ships and whale collisions started happening.
Monterey Bay Seafood Watch is only for seafood, that's why. They do lobbying for speed restrictions and reroutes too, along with other aquariums, like New England Aquarium.
This is a continuous process of data gathering and finding out what the issues are. Entanglement deaths also outnumber vessel strikes in the last few years. We aren't seeing a decline in entanglements yet- note the data for 2019-2023 is not done being complied on this page.
The old gear is in the ocean, not being used. Lobster rope can last for years when submerged in water. Lost gear happens, and with it, lost rope. I don't think I need a citation for ghost gear, it's a widely known thing. But just because you asked-
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025326X21008006
My post implied that the argument that "it's Canadian gear" didn't work because gear wasn't marked when data was collected. On top of that, the marks only go so far- all they do is ID thing rope, they don't stop anything. And that's assuming that the rope isn't fouled up and you can actually see the marks.
And about your shipping assumption- shipping is a whole different beast with trade offs- it's less carbon intensive to ship by boat than by plane. Buying local when one can is always good. But even then, shipping is subject to restrictions, and we are seeing declines in mortality due to shipping vessels. I know for a fact that one of the deaths last year that is a vessel strike was not shipping, but a fishing yacht- which I do without just fine. And I do fine without lobster too, since there are alternatives in other, more sustainable crustaceans, or other proteins both plant and animal based.
There's a lot of restrictions on vessels too.
Regardless of marks or not though, it doesn't matter. Gear is getting stuck on these whales and killing them. Monterey Bay is saying err on the side of caution because there's 350 of these whales left. Until we can prove that
edwinthowaway t1_j4x5p8q wrote
There is little that can be done about ghosts gear. The lobster industry could stop fishing tomorrow and that would still be there. I don’t get your point. A lobster fished today with new gear does nothing about ghost gear. All they can do is use the best gear today.
You say err on the side of caution, then fine. Shut the industry down and start paying lobster fishermen not to fish ($750,000,000 a year). But all of a sudden, costs will matter when it’s not the lobsterman’s wallets we are hitting.
Megraptor t1_j55m60s wrote
Point is, gear today is still getting stuck on NARWs, marks or not. It's just old gear can't be traced to anywhere, and the data that many people are citing that says it's not US lobster pots is from before the pots were marked.
There are other solutions than to just shut it down completely. Ropeless pots are a thing.
https://ropeless.org/background/
edwinthowaway t1_j564goc wrote
> gear today
> old gear
These are not the same thing. All they can do is change what they use today. Even ropeless pots that you suggest do not magically eliminate old gear. My point is, they have taken steps to make the gear they use today traceable. They cannot go back in time and do it to already lost gear.
And who is paying for every lobster boat to get ropeless gear?
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