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DeNoodle t1_j3sdrk6 wrote

Reply to comment by HomeAloneToo in Colorado to stop busing migrants after pleas from NYC and Chicago mayors by callingforduty

From what I know, and I'm not defending it by any means, I don't know enough to go either way, but wasn't it the case here that the migrants requested transport to those cities? Not just a media stunt like from out of TX or FL.

EDIT: https://www.colorado.gov/governor/news/9356-colorado-takes-action-assist-migrants-completing-their-journeys

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ImmediateJeweler5066 t1_j3smkik wrote

Yeah I’ve been asking around because I know quite a few people who are immigrants or work with immigrant communities, and it seems like these folks were unable to get to Chicago and NYC because transportation was a mess from the winter storm, but they wanted to go. It’s very different than kidnapping people like Abbott did.

If they were trying to get to other cities where they have family or friends, then chartering a bus to help them get there is a good thing. People are not going to need much assistance in the form of emergency shelters if they have community support at their destination.

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CobraCommander t1_j3sdw69 wrote

Absolutely not

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DeNoodle t1_j3sea4i wrote

Okay, so explain this in the context of your comment:

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/news/9356-colorado-takes-action-assist-migrants-completing-their-journeys

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CobraCommander t1_j3sepgk wrote

No evidence has been provided that a) the migrants asked to be sent across the country and b) that it is not just a coincidence that they're being sent exactly where the TX governor has been sending migrants.

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gravescd t1_j3srlt3 wrote

The state of CO's statement has been posted multiple times already - it clearly says that it provided voluntary travel assistance to people's destination of choice.

Believe it or not, NYC and Chicago are major destinations for immigrants.

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DeNoodle t1_j3sfkc3 wrote

You're trying to create a false equivalency. The stated goals of TX and FL couldn't be further form those articulated by CO. You're welcome to use as broad a brush as you like, but we're also welcome to ignore you as a blowhard. Have a nice day, Bud.

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daveeb t1_j3sgrmu wrote

Former CO resident here. Not familiar with any migrant transport practices from my time there, but I did learn quite a bit about how the transportation of the homeless was handled from folks who worked in missions. My understanding of how this played out in the past is…

  • Homeless person arrives in area in CO.
  • They’re asked if they have family/friends in any number of cities.
  • The homeless person identifies which city they have such connections in.
  • They’re given transit to the destination.

It wouldn’t surprise me if something like that happened here.

> Were you looking to go to Chicago? NYC? San Francisco?

And then they’re shipped off.

The morality of all that is… grey, to say the least. Snagging their consent to solve the immediate problem.

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Sateloco t1_j3sm4y7 wrote

What if they want to stay in Colorado?

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daveeb t1_j3sq0d2 wrote

For the homeless, they end up in the shelter system. Good people work at shelters, and I don’t want to say anything bad about them. That said, their overall effectiveness is questionable. Folks often bounce if they’re wanting to drink/do drugs, and it’s not a safe spot for women.

Everyone’s doing their best, but as you can tell from the number of homeless camps in Denver, it’s often just not enough.

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Xx_Khepri_xX t1_j3sfsy9 wrote

Sounds like CO is pulling an Abbot.

Why would the migrants ask to be sent there specifically, makes no sense.

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gravescd t1_j3sqq4a wrote

You're asking why migrants looking for work, housing, and legal assistance would want to go the New York, largest city and metro area on the continent?

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[deleted] t1_j3sgzrh wrote

[removed]

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N8CCRG t1_j3smwhl wrote

They weren't forced, but they were lied to about where they were going. Many of them were trying to get to places where they had friends or family all over the country, some even just other parts of Texas, and they were told the bus would take them there, but then the bus took them to New York and DC.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3soap0 wrote

Kinda weird to carry water for human traffickers bro.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3spzvh wrote

If they’re human traffickers so is Colorado. They we’re doing the exact same thing minus the press releases.

The only human traffickers benefiting from this situation are the ones south of the border.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3sqzm6 wrote

I’m not absolving CO either. I’m just pointing out that you seem to weigh your own interests over that of people based on their nation of origin or ethnic background, to the extent that you’re willing to push talking points created by the people that did the trafficking.

Not a good look.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3sx3ju wrote

Letting millions of people pour across your border to be exploited while your own economic conditions deteriorate is not a moral decision. There is a reason that Cesar Chavez set up camps of Union workers at the border to literally turn in and beat back migrants crossing illegally and it wasn’t because he for white supremacy. Union farm labor was eventually defeated by the exploitation of migrants.

We celebrate Cesar Chavez while ignoring what he stood for and what he fought for.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3sx8i0 wrote

Letting millions of people pour across your border to be exploited while your own economic conditions deteriorate is not a moral decision. There is a reason the Cesar Chavez set up camps of Union workers at the borders to literally turn in and beat back migrants crossing illegally and it wasn’t because he for white supremacy.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3sypn5 wrote

Exploitation is wrong, so is letting the country falter economically. The solution is not to prohibit immigration.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3szhks wrote

Immigration and illegal migration are two very different things. Legal and controlled immigration should be encouraged, but until you stop the flow of millions of migrants across the border you can’t have a functional system. There is nothing ethical or moral about an open border. It’s only good for those who exploit the working class and the migrants.

This is a country that was built by giving away land to emigrants and immigrants. I have no negative feelings about these people, but the idea that we should celebrate the Democratic Party allowing this to fester and grow for two years is ridiculous.

I mean honestly before this article did you know Democrats in Colorado was also bussing migrants away? People can attack me all they want for saying it, but if you went to these places first hand like I did you’d realize how serious the situation is.

This is the same mentality I see on Reddit when then think that magic “insurance” pays for the shops that were burnt down in the riots of 2020.

We saw all that damage, and the loudest activists bought mansions and the Police just set a new record for officer shootings. Yay!

People take so many positions because they are cosmetically progressive, but take very little time to consider the lives of other people that are impacted.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3szr3q wrote

Oh cool, this’ll be easy.

You’re wrong.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t1ngn wrote

A 2017 report from Doctors Without Borders said 31.4 percent of women had been sexually abused during their trip to this country.

You keep on being right

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mrm00r3 t1_j3t34n4 wrote

Cool bait and switch edit, but you’re still wrong.

You sound like a bitchy J6er. I think Doctors Without Borders did a study on that too. It said that 4 in 10 people are sick of listening to your shit.

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gravescd t1_j3srxim wrote

Colorado did coerce people with false information about jobs and legal assistance, and then send them someplace completely difference.

Colorado helped people get to where they were already trying to go when their transportation got cancelled in the middle of winter.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3svhaq wrote

I think you need to go travel the border. I went up and down the Rio Grande this summer from Laredo all the way to almost El Paso and actually illegally crossed into Mexico at three points just to do it. The water level was so low this summer many points of crossing were available where water was barely knee deep.

I talked with a lot of people down there and what the cartels are doing is horrific. The amount of rape and human misery is staggering. To do nothing about this crisis is deplorable immoral and exploitative. This isn’t a positive thing going on in this country and the fact that the absurdity that is the Republican Party are the only people willing to speak about this issue should really concern working class voters. What we are allowing to happen at the border is not a humanitarian gesture.

The fact that Colorado is overwhelmed enough to pay people to leave and they aren’t on the border speaks loudly. I understand that Republicans are amoral fear mongers, but what is happening right now not ok. We don’t even have enough housing for people who live and work here legally. Where are we going to house millions of people arriving who come unannounced? To pretend that unfettered migration isn’t damaging the economics of lower income people who are legally here is just putting your head in the sand.

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gravescd t1_j3sxksa wrote

Colorado didn't "pay people to leave", they bought tickets for migrants who got stranded in the state en route to somewhere else.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t2jzj wrote

That’s a really elaborate way to say they did a human trafficking

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gravescd t1_j3t3xmp wrote

Voluntary assistance to a destination of their choice isn't trafficking.

If your flight gets canceled during a layover and someone pays for your ticket on another carrier, are you being trafficked?

The trafficking from TX involved lying to people about jobs and legal assistance in specific places, and then sending them to completely different locations.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t5bhw wrote

So the nearly 10,000 people Texas has sent to NYC we’re all lied to? The system they’re using is very similar to what Colorado was doing until like literally yesterday. They just chose to make it a media event. People are sleeping outside of churches on the border because they ran out of room to house so many people. It’s madness

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gravescd t1_j3t6vgg wrote

I'm talking specifically about the ones that were turned in to media frenzies. The ones at Martha's Vineyard and Kamala Harris's house. Those people were not assisted by social workers, they were lied to by political staff, and they were not sent to where they wanted to go.

If a program provides voluntary assistance to where someone is actually trying to go, then it's legal and a good thing. Helping people make transportation arrangements is normal work in social services.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3swcvd wrote

Lol admitting to multiple felonies and concern trolling for the GOP. I guess we know you aren’t vegan.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t2djq wrote

First off fuck the GOP

Secondly if illegally crossing the border is a felony then why aren’t the millions who crossed illegally in prison and then deported as criminal aliens?

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mrm00r3 t1_j3t3ree wrote

Because you’re an American citizen doing something very different than seeking asylum in a foreign country, dipshit.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t4m8s wrote

You seek asylum at points of entry . You don’t seek it by illegally crossing. If you illegally enter it means you are attempting to not seek asylum moron.

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mrm00r3 t1_j3t8539 wrote

This is coming from the admitted illegal border crosser.

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3srb61 wrote

Newsflash, migrants have always run American agriculture at the ground level. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's just large scale businesses taking over that are implementing these strategies.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3sucpc wrote

They absolutely didn’t run weed on the ground level until recently. This has been devastating for smaller grows that we’re legally operating under the previous laws. Now everyone is back to being criminals that I know and it went from a job that paid living wages to one where large monied interest exploit migrants. This is not a positive change

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3sxq2e wrote

I never said it was a positive change. I just noted that it's directly impacting your industry and now you're seeing its effects. The same way immigrants aren't operating backyard tomato grows, they weren't operating independent weed farms, but are now being brought into the fold as corporate businesses run the show.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t2470 wrote

Yes and now there are millions of more people here to be exploited as tools to further their goal of modern feudalism.

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3t2sk1 wrote

Yes that's the problem with a broken immigration and labor system, you want a cookie or something?

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t3n4h wrote

I want people to stop pretending that the Democratic Party is on the right side of this conversation. They seem very content right now to paint anyone who says this humanitarian crisis is a serious issue as a racist or white supremacist. The GOP is a cesspool of bigoted morons whose donors benefit from the status quo, but to see what has been allowed to happen the last two years at the border is just horrific. It’s not moral or ethical and it will not end well for the majority of this country.

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3t3y2u wrote

You say it like it's a problem to be solved with a single pen stroke. Biden is not some progressive hailing change, I'm not sure why you think he is.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t4czg wrote

We never had it like this under Obama. It’s not about pen strokes, it’s about priorities. Even saying this is an issue gets you called a Republican and a racist. That’s insane

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3t5f39 wrote

Please elaborate on what you mean by "had it like this". Simply acknowledging there is a humanitarian issue on the border isn't what gets you called a racist. It's how you talk about the people who need help that actually does make someone a racist. Like, when you say "they should just do it the way my ancestors did", well that's not possible because the system doesn't work that way and you're inferring that this makes them criminals breaking laws (which weren't prosecuted until 2004 as stated in an above comment). People willing to trek thousands of miles through dangerous land should be offered help if they come seeking it, not turned away at the gate and told "too bad so sad, should have come up here last century".

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t6ikd wrote

Many of these people are economic migrants plain as day. This is class warfare masquerading as a moral obligation. If they’re legitimately seeking asylum then they should go to a point of entry and claim it legally. That’s not what many of these people are doing because that’s not what many of these people are.

It’s like the homeless. Many homeless people want to be homeless because they get to live without responsibility and do their drugs.

I don’t feel bad for these people.

I feel bad for the people who live here who are struggling to pay rent because it’s doubled in a few years and letting millions of people across the border to compete for the limited housing isn’t going to anything positive.

You act like millions of economic migrants who come here to work under the table doesn’t have negative impacts on the working class.

I read and was convinced of this issue by Cesar Chavez. That man was right then and he is right now. I just wish he had picked kinder language.

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3t7k56 wrote

"It’s like the homeless. Many homeless people want to be homeless because they get to live without responsibility and do their drugs."

Okay, clearly you're just a moron. Goodbye.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3t9w4r wrote

Dude talk to homeless people. They like being out there and many are high as fuck. It’s a lifestyle. Many don’t want to get clean and they don’t want jobs. They like being high and getting benefits like food stamps and economic aid. Have you ever worked in those communities? Being homeless is an economic strategy at this point.

Why would you work 40-50 hours a week to spend half your income on rent when you can sleep out and get benefits for not working? I don’t understand why more people aren’t choosing that path. Frankly living in my truck and buying a trailer has saved me tens of thousands of dollars a year in rent. I work when a I want to. I don’t do the drugs, but it’s liberating to be able to go where you want when you want. I don’t think you understand what’s going on in the margins of this society at all.

Since I’ve been back from Afghanistan I’ve never had a lease or a mortgage and spent years living in a vehicle to save money even while I worked.

Why would you choose to be a wage slave?

Once you get used to being homeless it’s way better than working at McDonalds or a factory. It’s freedom.

https://youtube.com/shorts/13FO8uHWXlw?feature=share

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3tbfkr wrote

Ah yes, because this YouTube video speaks for the multitude of homeless people struggling with addiction and mental health issues. Great argument. Again, you sound like a moron.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3tgyf6 wrote

I just spent most of June and July working full time as a volunteer with homeless drug addicts in Colorado. Again I’m speaking from experience. I like these people, but most of them would never choose housing over drugs. If people don’t want treatment you can’t house then because it gets destroyed. I and many like me gave up traditional housing because it’s a scam anyways. Visit r/vanlife for an example. Why would anyone pay 1200-2000 a month in rent? I don’t know what you think you know about marginal communities but I’ve spent 8 months in the last 2 years volunteering with unhoused and displaced people full time and I could educate you.

No one who works with homeless communities thinks that drug addicted ones want housing fyi. We know they don’t because they tell us they don’t.

https://portlandrescuemission.org/news/about-homelessness/when-homeless-people-dont-want-help/

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The_Poster_Nutbag t1_j3thit0 wrote

Trustfund kid vanlife and people who are unable to stop using heroin to the point where they live in the streets are not remotely the same thing. You sound ridiculous.

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hungaryhasnodignity t1_j3tj5ez wrote

It’s two sides of the life. First of most people living in vehicles are marginal as fuck. In spent two years in mine after Afghanistan. I’ve spent over a year of my life living in a tent as well.

Secondly, not every homeless person on drugs is on heroin, and in fact many aren’t serious drugs addicts.

It’s a super diverse community. You don’t know these people and I work with them for months at a time out of pocket. These TikTok people trying to monetize homelessness aren’t the people in the trenches of the housing crisis.

There are many people living in cars and RVs right now to avoid insane rents. I sold RVs and live in one so I know it’s happening. They buy buses too. Anything is better than rent for many of us. Why would you spend 50% of your income on housing? If you don’t have rent or a mortgage you don’t have to work full time to survive.

I work half the year and can still save moderately.

I dunno what to tell you, but housing is optional to a lot of people.

I would like to see the prices of rent normalize but that ship seems to have sailed. Instead they’ll keep passing anti camping and anti RV laws to try to force people back into working for Blackrock capital.

Like I said I don’t feel sorry for them, but I’ve spent thousands of dollars and months of my time feeding and helping people who lost their homes or chose not to have one. I just try to help when I can.

I just think it’s tragic what’s happened to this country.

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