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flourishingpinecone t1_j4yhfzl wrote

Reply to comment by akaasa001 in Berlin Won’t Allow Exports of German Tanks to Ukraine Unless U.S. Sends Its Own by Torifyme12

you're being a bit naive because the entire world has only sent a fraction of what the US has sent

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j4yitmv wrote

True, but that absolutely shouldn’t be the case. Germany has much more to fear from Russian expansionism in Europe.

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flourishingpinecone t1_j4yo1zv wrote

the US spends 3x more on defense than the entire EU combined, they aren't ever gonna be able to match us.

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j4yorvd wrote

Yeah. Trumpists (cough cough) were right about one thing: the US needs to stop being the security guard for Europe on US taxpayers’ dime. It’s been 78 years since the end of WWII, and it’s time for Germany (in particular) to stop free-riding on the US security umbrella.

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Torifyme12 OP t1_j4yvuvk wrote

Or at the least if they could stop crapping on us it'd be nice.

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jens-2420 t1_j4zerrd wrote

USA is keeping military posts all over the world in its own interests. Bit like the British 150 years ago. Not for „defending freedom and democracy“.

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j4zfjv5 wrote

That fact redounds to Germany’s benefit, as well as to the rest of the west.

It’s not at all like the British because the US doesn’t have colonies. The British were engaging in mercantilism; the US isn’t.

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Fuzzy_Accident_5085 t1_j507nec wrote

To prevent dictators getting ahold of nuclear weapons. You want more north koreas? Just letting dictators run loose is how you get more koreas and russias and middle easts. If the US was like the British empire, it’d own all of Europe hand in hand with the Soviet Union AND Britain. Now once again, the US has to step in and play god because germany AND France AND the rest of the EU is repeating itself and letting the rest of the world down by not confronting dictators.

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Sbubbert t1_j53toi7 wrote

People like you are so fucking ignorant. How do you think the whole world would look like right now if the US had the military budget of an average European country? Hint: you wouldn't like it very much.

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Krajun t1_j4z71y9 wrote

After all the US has done in the past, I don't think Ukraine is where we should draw the line. The one time we're actually defending democracy instead of installing fascist regimes.

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j4z869o wrote

I fully, 100% agree. Now is not the time. Also, we’d be fools from a cost-benefit standpoint.

eta: Nonetheless, Germany needs to step up.

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reddit5674 t1_j4zu28v wrote

Hmmm... It's not like free security?

Its like USA's business model. Somewhat similar to the colony era.

I am not economy or military expert, but I do know there ar benefits from all that military expansion, directly and both indirectly.

Im not saying whether this "business" model is efficient or not, (it is getting slightly less effective currently as I see it) but it is not "wasting tax payers money"

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Venetax t1_j4yvgx1 wrote

That decision would only make the US weak. The US is strong because it intervenes basically everything everywhere and takes the position of the "leader of the free world". If they stop doing that, it would slowly result in the US becoming more insignificant.

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j4ywpym wrote

I wasn’t suggesting that the US withdraw from the world stage.

The US is strong because it’s a vast country comprised of 330 million people spread out over 50 states, a district, and territories, with tremendous natural and human resources. Having Germany pull its weight after outsourcing most of its defense for nearly 8 decades won’t cause the US to crumble.

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IAmAPaidActor t1_j586tgv wrote

The US is strong because it wields its power effectively. It puts down its enemies economically, it puts down its threats with overwhelming violence, and it props up allies where needed. This maintains its status, ensures that nobody can act against it except for show, and guarantees further economic prosperity. The US has a strong economy because it maintains a presence with each of its trade partners. Some of that is through treaties with larger allies, some of that is through base agreements with smaller allies, and some of that comes in the form of missile strikes and occupation to remind the less friendly nations why they need to fall in line and keep things amicable.

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MetaphysicalMayhem t1_j58ageq wrote

The US is the least trade-dependent member of the G7, by far. Trade is a relatively insignificant part of the US’s wealth. Thus, your statement that the “US has a strong economy because it maintains a presence with each of its trade partners” is flat wrong. The US is strong for the reasons I stated. It’s huge and has tremendous natural and human resources, all governed relatively loosely.

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Fiddler_s_green t1_j4zrkx2 wrote

They only said that because the love the psedo-christian-facist state that is Russia. If Ukraine had been attacked by people of a darker completion our fascist party would have given them fucking air craft carrier groups.

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lochlainn t1_j4yny3w wrote

Look at it in terms of GDP. France and Germany are sending embarassingly little compared to places like the UK, Canada, Poland, the former Soviet Baltic states (Estonia gave a whopping 1.1% of their GDP and Latvia 0.93%) a whopping 1.1% of their GDP), or Norway.

For a country that suffered under Russian occupation, they aren't giving like the rest, that's for sure.

The US gave 0.23% of its GDP, comparable to Canada.

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Venetax t1_j4yuy6i wrote

>Combining financial assistance, humanitarian aid, and weapon deliveries put together, the German government has sent €5.45 billion directly to Ukraine this year. It’s also channeled a further €7.15 billion to help fund EU initiatives for Ukraine, making for a combined total of €12.6 billion in German support.

Germany overall has sent ~0.3% of its GDP.

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lochlainn t1_j4z1rhm wrote

A shame they can only throw money, and not actual military aid, then.

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