Submitted by ninjascotsman t3_10m52gp in news
Comments
Chav t1_j615zkb wrote
It's one of these "schools for troubled teens", so it's not surprising. Like if the parents do any research it should be obvious that you shouldn't send them there to begin with.
X-the-Komujin t1_j61slmr wrote
I'm autistic and these kinds of schools exists for us as well as some of the US considers us "troubled" in much of the same way. I don't like injecting politics into stuff unless I genuinely believe it is relevant, but I'm convinced this type of school isn't uncommon in conservative areas in the US and is overlooked by pretty much everyone as they have outwardly positive reputations by locals and people in more progressive or highly populated areas either don't know about them period or have actual means of support.
It's not just Utah, it's far more common than you think. I know multiple similar schools in Pennsylvania and have heard of them existing all around the rust belt. All of them are shit for the same reason as their modus operandi is basically "teach them to cope". The specific school I went to never helped me succeed in any particular way as the education was lackluster given when I finally managed to get back into the primary school system through my mother asking staff to let me out for high school.
Eventually my education was far behind than the rest and I started failing in high school enough to the point of where I flunked multiple times and felt I had to drop out. Keep in mind, my elementary school grades were fine as my time in there was my middle school years. It was basically lacking critical lessons in important topics. In my school, math was very clearly put on the backburner and social studies basically wasn't taught. They basically entirely focused on English because some students were incapable of speaking or writing due to severe autism, yet plenty of neurotypicals were there for behavioral issues. So their "lessons" pretty much came at the detriment of everyone as someone severely autistic isn't going to start talking or writing no matter how many lessons you give them while everyone else learns nothing.
That doesn't speak of the many children preceding and following me who were not only treated like absolute shit but set up for failure with all of these schools. In the event someone tries to gaslight me about it not being bad, I'll just say this ahead of time: The school I was in was a redesigned prison with concrete walls and no windows outside of specific rooms. Meanwhile multiple staff were burly 6+ foot ripped men in the event someone there was brought to their snapping point or otherwise stepped out of line. I was never a violent person myself, but I wake up in cold sweats from nightmares over a decade later remembering certain kids get angry enough to get pulled out screaming and kicking by those men. It was a prison both metaphorically and literally in every conceivable manner.
The people who make these types of schools have a special place in Hell for me. I do hope you have a bit more insight into how these schools operate and there's no amount of money I wouldn't give to ensure every individual school like this gets shut down permanently.
zalipie t1_j62078q wrote
I am so sorry you had to go through that.
X-the-Komujin t1_j62anrv wrote
I appreciate your comment. All too often institutional evil goes unnoticed especially in rural communities. No one believed me when I told them this school was bad for me, but everyone was completely surprised when I failed in my later education. Meanwhile I have fairly regular nightmares over my experiences there that are sufficiently bad enough to wake me up mid-sleep and I'd be incapable of falling back asleep until 12+ hours later. I probably need therapy for this, but I know I won't be able to get it due to insurance issues.
For the longest time I was pretty much left behind and was severely lacking in education and even my personality took a turn for the worse. Those schools don't help you. They give you contempt for authority and a pessimistic and cynical outlook on many subjects. Some people may say that's how I should act towards a lot of subjects, but this was an ingrained childhood experience that would negatively impact you at a core level. I still don't get how people were legitimately stupid enough to try and goad severely autistic people into writing or speaking when a lot of them were non-verbal. I have the disability yet people in a position of authority who lacked my disability chose this path for us and thought it to be the best way of approaching things.
They thought "coping" was the catch-all solution to fix the behavior of students there, and even the severely autistic people can get openly annoyed by the staff. It would not be an exaggeration to say that I think they look at severely autistic people like animals due to their lack of communication, but I always remember them lashing out without warning if they got upset enough because despite their disability, there's still a person in there. One memory that fails to escape me is a bulky red-headed severely autistic high school man kept having staff be hands-on and violating his personal space which he eventually without warning grabbed the wrist of the staff member nearby and squeezed hard enough to cause pain while bearing teeth and eyes wide open. That's when the aforementioned "security guard" took him out of the room.
When I left high school, I was highly estranged and had a warped worldview. Being a part of internet communities helped me grow up more mature, more intelligent as I had the ability to learn things at my own pace and need, and it changed me from someone who was originally thought to be a lost cause in the education system. Yes, people truly had that level of contempt for me and so very many others. When I went onto chat rooms and participated with other people, I learned how to participate with others and put that experience past me, even if I still have nightmares from it years later. Some of the only people in my childhood who treated me with any sort of kindness was people of the days of Digg, Reddit, IRC, and Discord.
I ended up a better person long-term, even if I was and to an extent still am fucked in life. And there's no amount of thanks I can give to the people who showed me kindness online at the absence of everyone else in-person.
herbivorousanimist t1_j62j1k6 wrote
I’m not surprised you found good people when you finally got the chance to look for them, you come across as an absolute sweetheart.
You seem honest but humble, and vulnerable but strong. Also you come across as very kind yourself.
AutisticAndAce t1_j639922 wrote
Hey, another autistic person who learned social stuff via the internet. I was in the special education program in public school to some extend and honestly just got traumatized. Discord, Minecraft servers and various online fandom communities taught me how to interact with people.
james_bond_junior t1_j6323uf wrote
Have you heard why defining someone as “severely autistic” or “lightly autistic” is not good? I’m autistic, if you’re interested let me know and I can type more about it.
X-the-Komujin t1_j633nyt wrote
It's a spectrum and no single case is alike, but many neurotypicals don't understand the spectrum so I define it as that. The truth is the spectrum isn't a "line of intelligence" rather it is how severely the autism affects a certain person's capabilities.
I have seen those terms used as insults, but I disregard that when speaking in an objective manner.
LizbetCastle t1_j6464y2 wrote
Just by the way you write about others and your own experience, I can see that you’ve done a ton of self work and have a lot of compassion, I’m sorry that it came at the price of what sounds like PTSD. I hope someday you can get the support you would like, because someone with your gifts could make a huge difference in the world.
james_bond_junior t1_j67tj5e wrote
Since the “light” and “severe” adjectives don’t have a medical basis, they are based on how the autistic person makes them feel and hasn’t got to do with what the autistic person is actually going through in that moment or during other parts of their life. Someone could struggle to take basic care of themselves at home and be going through intense anxiety in the moment which will cause a non-verbal shutdown later, but someone they are speaking to could be surprised they are autistic and claim it must be “light autism”. If they interacted with that same person during the shut down, it might be “mild” or “severe”.
Having said that, I can understand how that language could help to get certain ideas across to people who don’t understand autism.
AhabMustDie t1_j64clef wrote
I'm interested — is it the same argument for why the terms "high-functioning" and "low-functioning" shouldn't be used?
What terms do you think are better? Profound autism? High-support vs low-support needs?
james_bond_junior t1_j68vfjv wrote
Yeah exactly, it’s the same thought process behind that. So you would talk about it in terms of some or other specific support need. Someone might not be able to go to the grocery store alone, but if online shopping is available it’s not something that might have an impact on their life and therefore isn’t a support need.
snowbirdie t1_j654uzo wrote
I feel that you should write a book on your experience.
Scrumpy-Steve t1_j629h62 wrote
It's also not just boarding schools either. It's a problem in psychiatric behavioral hospitals as well. I was in and out of them since I had a troubled childhood, and the schools at all except one of them were pretty much three hours of lessons a day. Only one teacher out of all of them ever engaged with us, for the rest it was follow the lesson in the book. Can't figure it out? Tough shit, you fail for the day.
Mean_Bluejay1351 t1_j63txro wrote
Right?!? I had the same experience. A few (2 max) hours with some random worksheets was “school”
mochibunne t1_j6myab4 wrote
I actually just received my medical records from the psychiatric hospital I went to 5 years ago. They completely falsified my statements to extend my stay. The utter cruelty I witnessed and experienced is going to stay with me for the rest of my life. We need psych reform so, so badly.
Scrumpy-Steve t1_j6p0n0r wrote
I found out my psych used an emergency order to block my dad from contacting me and then lied to both my and my mom's face about it. My mother was absolutely adamant that my dad was able to contact his son since he lived on the other side of the Atlantic at the time
DormeDwayne t1_j62jml9 wrote
That sounds horrible.
I’m really interested in your perspective here; how should the education system operate when it comes to special-needs and troubled children on varying ends of the needs continuum? It’s completely obvious that a lot of them function just normally in regular school, but should everyne be included in the same schools? Of not, where is the cut-off line? If some are not enrolled in regular school, what does their school look like? Obviously not like a prison, but what subjects are taught and how, how much stress it put on social aptitude instead etc.
X-the-Komujin t1_j62p5dn wrote
I have 3 main points when it comes to autism. Autism is a spectrum and each case has different severity on the person affected. Light autism (Autism Spectrum Disorder or formerly Asperger's Syndrome), moderate autism, and severe autism. Light autism is what I am. We function differently but we can for the most part be as intelligent if not more than than the average person. People theorize that Albert Einstein was an undiagnosed light autistic person. As for moderate autism, that is when someone can understand basic issues and terms and may be able to utter some brief phrases and do things without assistance, but will need some form of support for the remainder of their life. Severe autism results in a non-verbal and are dysgraphic. These people will need life-long support in the same case as an elderly person with dementia. They cannot do any form of basic self-care and must be cleaned, assisted in the restroom, and hand fed.
Now, I want to be very clear here in that what I just said above is a very broad scope and each diagnosed case of autism is going to be different in various ways. A severely autistic man may be able to feed himself if handed food and have certain other skills, but may have trouble with the other mentioned issues of self-care. Meanwhile someone who is light in autism isn't guaranteed to just be "weird in person". I have epilepsy myself on top of that. Also, neurological conditions frequently overlap in the case of autistic people. I was not the only autistic and epileptic person in that school.
Severely autistic children and men may not ever integrate into society and they should just have a caretaker during their time in school without being disturbed too much outside of some if any activities they may be able to derive enjoyment from. I'm talking about non-verbal people who cannot communicate through text. I mentioned in another comment that the severely autistic children were frequently given assignments to try and teach them even kindergarten level speech/writing but it never amounted to anything for anyone there and frequently resulted in even the severely autistic children getting upset, then getting taken out and they are unlikely to understand what they did wrong when the staff were the major aggressors in almost all scenarios.
You do not see severely autistic people in school often because they are frequently sent to schools like my own and kept there until I presume they "graduate". It's not uncommon for them to be sent as early as first grade or even kindergarten if they are completely incapable of doing assignments. They are more common than you think and you can easily populate 1-2 classrooms per school district with varying degrees of autistic school children. Some of them get sent away but you're basically guaranteed to not participate in a regular school with severe autism.
Moderately autistic people are frequently there for a majority of their years, but may be able to pass kindergarten and first grade with some enhanced difficulty. They are like severely autistic people but are more capable with basic functions and aren't necessarily non-verbal or dysgraphic. However it's always going to be an uphill battle trying to teach them anything complex or having them deal with complicated scenarios. It is likely in most areas you do not see anyone moderately autistic as they do not tend to last long and while they don't stand out nearly as much as severe autism, they do still stand out a fair amount and they will struggle to keep pace with the other children and failing very early elementary classes is a quick ticket to a school like the one I mentioned.
Finally, people like me go to these schools only if we have developmental or behavioral trouble or the parents recommend it. Many high-functioning autistic children had difficult times in school either not understanding right from wrong or being influenced by someone bad. I had issues with fatigue to my epilepsy and sleep schedules, and I inadvertently fell asleep in class once which caused the principal to appear in person and physically pull me out of my chair which I had responded violently. That ended up getting me put in the charting school after a discussion with him and my mother. I entered the boarding school not knowing what I did wrong since a stranger was physically pulling me without warning in the primary school system. Keep in mind, I was not familiar with the principal as I had just entered middle school (I was only there for a few months). So some man came in from nowhere and started dragging me out of my classroom, and I didn't know how to properly act. My mother put me in the boarding school not knowing how bad the environment was and I began to hate school and I never felt like I had anyone to look up upon as my older neurotypical brother frequently injured me for being "stupid" (he has a much more mellow personality in adulthood and felt remorse for his actions some 15+ years later knowing my autism diagnosis) so I often looked to entertainment media (aka violence in a lot of it) to try and understand how people acted.
Only when my mother got internet for my brother did I learn exactly how other people acted, since during school I did not particularly relate to adults or other students that well, but people on the internet treated me like an equal without regard to my disability. It was only with social media that I grew as a person and learned I wasn't a failure or beyond hope. I just got into the internet far too late as rural america lacked internet for far longer than people in suburban and urban communities. Schools did not let you use the internet as far as I remember as it served no purpose for education.
One final parting note is that I believe that autism in general is horribly misunderstood. I said severe autistic people are looked upon like animals in the other comment, but that's only the base of it. Autism is misunderstood and so many false stereotypes exist about people like us. One popular example is that people like me are inherently shy because we don't look people in the eyes. This is one of the bigger stereotypes peddled. Autistic people can be shy, but we aren't inherently afraid of neurotypicals just because we don't look you in the eyes. And I can be quite mean if I feel someone is coddling me for that or treating me any less than the person I am due to these stereotypes.
I hope this answers in depth all of your questions. I believe that severe and moderate autistic people should get the support they need without being haggled by staff in these boarding schools, and I also believe that whatever approach that these staff are currently using are ineffective and result in worsened behavior or traumatic memories that negatively effect high functioning autistic children.
DormeDwayne t1_j62sua6 wrote
Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and well-substantiated response. I’ve profitted from it a lot. I am not a total ignorant, I’m a teacher who is teaching and has taught lightly autistic people before (high school atm, middle school and primary school in the past). I am also not American, but rather European and had an autistic classmate in primary and middle school. That was before this diagnosis was available here so nobody knew he was actually autistic until years later, we just knew he was different and had soecial needs the school did its best to accomodate.
It is a topic therefore, which I must and want to understand well from all sides, not just from the point of view of a teacher, but also an ex-classmate, and mother to neurotypical kids who might have an autistic classmate, friend or partner in the future.
Again, thank you very much.
X-the-Komujin t1_j62yita wrote
I appreciate your genuine interest in this subject. For many autistic people, I think they understand they aren't like the others, and I believe this even applies to severe autism. So to an extent they understand people treating them as such. Most autistic people aren't bothered by good faith people like you. It's the supremely ignorant and improperly trained that cause autistic people across the spectrum to react negatively. Severe autism requires you to inherently respect the person involved. Light autism requires you to treat them as regular of a person as you can without embarrassing them or otherwise being belittling of them. People like me may need assistance from time to time but you should always treat us like another student if we can perform at nearly the same level as them.
Charter schools are a problem because their approach to things as well as their staff training are poor and inadequate in many cases. Combine that with many new young teachers having a poor approach to this on both sides (charter and regular school) that it is fairly frequently a problem. My voice is deeper than average and I don't look people in the eye, but far too many people make the mistake of treating me like I'm a demented elderly person.
I grew a beard and mustache for the purpose of avoiding those issues as people are far less likely to act like this towards a burly tall man like myself. Children don't have that option, obviously, and get treated with prejudice, either intentionally or otherwise. But this is more a problem for lighter autistic people like myself. Sometimes telling someone like me from someone who genuinely needs more direct intervention on a lot of topics is going to be hard.
I think autistic children should be respected and those who are like me should be properly guided in being a good person and having any negative influences not only removed, but explained in depth. For me, seeing people tell me to cope with stuff while having a condescending attitude reduced my respect for them, but so did people who went over the line and treated me like less than them, indirectly or otherwise. Bad people act in the former way while well-intentioned people act the latter.
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j62xufx wrote
I’m sorry you went through this also. The abuses in the “Christian” reform schools like Lester Roloff’s schools, Ron Williams’s Hephzibah House and Escuela Caribe are also bad. Julia Scheeres wrote a rather scathing memoir of her experience at Escuela Caribe in her book “Jesus Land.”
X-the-Komujin t1_j6303qy wrote
They aren't much different in practice, some are religious and others are not. They keep kids "in line" and try to guide them through dubious means, but it never ends up working as expected and this is assuming it's all genuinely trying to be helpful. Sometimes it's just to get kids out of primary school or even for money as mentioned.
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j630f4y wrote
Good point. I’m the case of religious schools, kids can be placed there for the pettiest of reasons, and also to conceal sexual abuse within families.
tiptoeintotown t1_j63vlg4 wrote
I’m autistic too and was sent away to many places growing up.
I wasn’t a bad kid. I was a curious kid with absent parents, thus I had to be the problem.
I grew up in New York and they have quite the insidious little “cottage” industry there too. Even judges admitted to taking bribes to needlessly send children away years after the fact.
I learned early on the importance of reading a room. It was my best survival skill back then. This meant I knew to keep my mouth shut, be polite and never do anything that isn’t told to me. I learned to just follow instructions and I made it through many years completely unscathed. No one ever put their hands on me, not even once and I was generally a staff favorite. Staff brought me books and cassette tapes and spent time educating me on what they had given me. One man taught me about Led Zeppelin, another, Walt Whitman but this wasn’t the case for the other kids. Not even close. Had I made a dollar for every kid a saw body slammed and pinned down by 4 grown adults, many like the men you describe, while they scream and howl, I could have bought us all a lawyer to get us out of there.
My “education” was like yours. I was the most intelligent out of all the group so naturally, I was the one who was going to slip through the cracks. Most courses were completed by handing me a cliffs note book and a 20 year old textbook and the rest was up to me. It was rote memorization and only that. Nothing absorbed, nothing actually learned. I flew through state administered regents exams like a pro but then struggled when I was back in regular school because it turns out you actually have to go to class, pay attention, engage and do the work in a real classroom and I was never taught that. I was always told I was the smartest in the room but I wasn’t.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
caseyyp t1_j6388it wrote
I'm in my masters for SPED right now and this is so archaic. It's pre70s line of thinking which is "we have to protect the normal ones from distraction"
[deleted] t1_j67qnuz wrote
[deleted]
[deleted] t1_j6arztw wrote
[removed]
si12345 t1_j61fpyd wrote
I know several people who work at and others who went to DRA, and in Utah there are plenty of these fucked up places in Utah
Resfebermpls t1_j62hhcg wrote
There’s a podcast that focuses specifically on these places in Utah because of how prevalent they are there. I think it’s called Sent Away.
frannieluvr86 t1_j6476pd wrote
Last Podcast on the Left is doing a series on this now and it’s good!
[deleted] t1_j65ytar wrote
[removed]
Mean_Bluejay1351 t1_j63tlrz wrote
Excellent podcast
[deleted] t1_j65m5e1 wrote
[removed]
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j62xzsi wrote
These facilities often seek states with minimal or no regulation so they can get away with abuse.
tiptoeintotown t1_j63vcc1 wrote
Do you remember a show on TV, wanna say Fox, where a group of very young children was dropped off in the Utah wilderness and they had to build a village, more or less, Lord of the Flies style? It was in the mid 2000s.
ImpossibleTax t1_j64106m wrote
CBS Kid Nation? I think it was New Mexico.
tiptoeintotown t1_j645od6 wrote
Yes!!!! Thank you!
That show was absolutely wild. I was in shock watching it back then.
IDWBAForever t1_j6472vz wrote
JonTron did a video about the show, and not only that, he managed to track down one of the kids who was on the show at the time for an interview. You should definitely check out both videos if you're interested in Kid Nation.
tiptoeintotown t1_j64i8l1 wrote
I remember that little guy saying “I think I’m gonna die out here”. I hope it’s him.
darthjoey91 t1_j64ku40 wrote
That was Kid Nation, and it was comparatively much better than "troubled teen camps".
And that was at the Bonanza Film Ranch in New Mexico. Same place Alec Baldwin killed that woman.
tiptoeintotown t1_j65juzn wrote
Wow. That’s some crazy trivia knowledge there.
The_Barnanator t1_j645h1v wrote
Kid Nation on CBS. It was in the town of Bonanza, New Mexico. Show actually got cancelled because it was clear they were breaking even the lax child labor laws of New Mexico
tiptoeintotown t1_j645rsh wrote
I totally saw that coming in the first episode.
[deleted] t1_j63wpuq wrote
[removed]
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j646kr8 wrote
I didn’t watch it, evidently others did.
mdmd33 t1_j65hqlm wrote
I spent a week in Utah for work…never fucking again..
[deleted] t1_j62jrke wrote
[removed]
radicalelation t1_j6584kk wrote
My time in a couple of those places were shitty at points, but the stories from kids who transferred from worse facilities than mine were always horrifying.
SisterBob t1_j620uy8 wrote
Ugh I recently read the saga of a kid who survived the Elan school. That shit is insane.
rabidstoat t1_j62c5jf wrote
/r/troubledteens is actually a sub that is against those sorts of places.
caseyyp t1_j6383bo wrote
Emotionally disturbed kids are so complex. They will lie and manipulate you interspersed with being vulnerable. It takes a lot of reflection, awareness, and compassion to work with them. Many people burn out fast and then we're left with crummy people like this. ED students at my work was intimate with a boy didn't use a condom like they agreed andbwho then ditched her quick. She was assaulted and devestated. Her main teacher said she was playing us but it was absolutely not the case. It made me so angry to see her brushed off like that.
LizbetCastle t1_j646mfq wrote
Kids who learn to manipulate like that have usually learned it as a survival skill, sadly. There are exceptions, but the majority of them are wounded.
[deleted] t1_j64hb3w wrote
[removed]
drifting_signal t1_j65rtow wrote
WTF...how does this help people?
> they have a level called Unemployment which is used as punishment. Being “unemployed” means being forced to drag or pull a cart around the property from 5am in the morning to 10pm in the evening. Even their meals must be eaten outside so they do not abandon the cart. Residents could be placed on Unemployment for breaking any number of rules, including destruction of ranch property, being more than 15 feet from staff, stealing food, talking to the other gender, or swearing. > > Another punishment used by DRA is “RFI”. During this punishment, the teen is forbidden from speaking to anybody- even staff. They are also made to do extreme phsyical exercises and are only given cold food to eat. Although RFI sometimes only lasts for a few days, some teens report being put on RFI for multiple months.
[deleted] t1_j61nk2c wrote
[removed]
tiptoeintotown t1_j63v46u wrote
This.
What did they think could happen?
[deleted] t1_j65h7dw wrote
[removed]
Juhbellz t1_j6gj01k wrote
Last pod just did a 3 part series on them. Shits fuckd yo
ninjascotsman OP t1_j6171sh wrote
it's not just parents a few school districts in california have sent special education students that required placement to this therapuetic boarding school these placement cost the district $80k
co-wmh-ojh t1_j6230c0 wrote
I used to work at one and California school districts routinely pay $400+ a day and place their students there for an entire school year!!
howardslowcum t1_j62r82t wrote
My parents are narcissists. They do it because they enjoy hurting those they have power over. They create a false image of the child and a PR campaign of the child being a wild psychopath to Garner sympathy for having to deal with such an evil child. Meanwhile they bully and abuse the child and record the ensuing screams of a terrified, confused and emotionally abandoned child as evidence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-59489765.amp
I survived, many do not.
Sensate60 t1_j61xjsf wrote
I find it troubling that parents still take their kids to places like this, especially when many of these places are in the news every so often for kids dying from abuse and neglect like this.
victorix58 t1_j61wetn wrote
Is this a juvenile detention facility? It sure sounds like one. Possibly court ordered.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j624o8w wrote
No most the majority of the teenagers have been sent by parents for variety of things
ADHD, Axiety, adoption issues, Depression, defience eating disorders, self-harm, substance abuse, PTSD, learning diffcults.
because do they learning disabilties they also get alot of private placements by school districts.
[deleted] t1_j63koku wrote
[deleted]
ninjascotsman OP t1_j63krec wrote
No you don't
[deleted] t1_j63kwoz wrote
[deleted]
hurrrrrmione t1_j62v5hc wrote
Nope, it's a boarding school as the title says. r/troubledteens has a lot of info on this type of facility
[deleted] t1_j61x2sm wrote
[removed]
agawl81 t1_j63w60h wrote
There are just so few options for help when you have a child who is troubled and acting out. I live in what turns out to be the worst state for mental health and I have a student whose parents are just so lost. They have her in therapy with respite, attendant care, and case management workers. They've done individual and family therapy. The student is not a candidate for residential hospitalization because the acting out is not targeted at harming themself or other people. The student is rude (and I know that is an understatement but there's no word in English for Severely, pathologically rude to everyone around), starts fights with others, skips school, skips classes, sneaks out at night/runs away, destroys the parents' property, gets caught with older kids/(actual damn adults) using substances.
​
The only thing that hasn't been done/happened is criminal charges. The parents obviously do not want to call the police on their own child and when the child is caught out, the police just have the parents (who happen to be a small-town mayor plus a small town medical professional) come pick the child up.
​
Would juvenile detention help? Probably not. And juvenile detention doesn't really get handed down for tearing up your own stuff and being with some older boys while drinking and riding around town.
​
I'm not knocking these parents' character, but I can see them getting desperate enough to send their child to a private residential turnaround facility. The kid is almost 17, and the time that everyone working with them has to teach them appropriate ways to behave in the world is rapidly shrinking and right now, if that person were to be on their own, it would be a disaster.
​
People don't make use of these places because they are evil and uncaring, they make use of them because as a society we have failed to meet the mental and behavioral health needs of the population and left room for charlatans to fill in.
Shalimars t1_j649klj wrote
That’s the point for the parents who put their kids there
[deleted] t1_j62127b wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j6572jc wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j6hqv8f wrote
[removed]
Trixgrl t1_j6114ch wrote
The Last Podcast on the Left just did a series on these horrendous places.
res30stupid t1_j61lah0 wrote
There's also a really fucked-up webcomic which is the author's autobiographical account of being forced to go to one of these. It's called "Joe VS Elan School" and the school is sadly still open.
NovaNebula t1_j61lj5z wrote
Elan closed in 2011.
res30stupid t1_j61lylq wrote
Well, thank fucking God. When I read it, the author warned the school was still open at the time of writing (and a friend he tried to rescue was now a drug addict and recruit for the school).
RSquared t1_j62510f wrote
The behind the bastards podcast on Elan drew heavily from the comic but gave greater context to just how horrible the "schools" were, including the kidnapping tactics used on children to get them there.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j61nye9 wrote
that is correct the crazy thing about elan is that it was accredited by National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs which acccredits most of troubled teen programs
Fryceratops t1_j63g7of wrote
It is almost as if that organization lacks credibility.
Great_Hamster t1_j6698ek wrote
But didn't it reopen under another name?
NovaNebula t1_j66j2wa wrote
Not that I can tell. There's no record of it doing so. That may have happened to a different school.
macramelampshade t1_j6358je wrote
This was my entry point to the troubled teen industry and it’s really stuck with me. link for those interested.
aVHSofPointBreak t1_j61ey3q wrote
Was just about to post this. Great series. I had no idea how unregulated these institutions are. So vile.
rabidstoat t1_j62cbl3 wrote
Did they talk about troubled teen institutes that are overseas? I'm not sure if they still exist but for a while companies would move their places overseas, both for cheaper labor and for avoiding the (already too lax) US laws and regulations.
Ianator10 t1_j61obwa wrote
Yeah I knew immediately what was up when I saw "boarding school" because of them
The_Barnanator t1_j6462hy wrote
TrueAnon also had a pretty good series of episodes on these institutions, made doubly impactful because one of the hosts, Brace Belden, was actually sent to one as a teen and escaped
[deleted] t1_j633cox wrote
[removed]
Chelular07 t1_j61ol7a wrote
The first time I heard about the shit that goes on at troubled teen facilities it was in Teen Vogue and I was 17. Why the fuck is it that at 34 I am still reading that these places have little oversight, are harming children, and denying any wrong doing?
Also, I’m sorry but any place that charges $12000 per kid per month, then pays employees $13 and hour, is shady as fuck imo. They could pay 3 employees $25 an hour for a 40 hour work week on one student’s tuition. Yeah I know there are other costs to these facilities but they have 150 kids. That is 1.8 million dollars a month in tuition payments. Where the fuck is that money going???
dak4f2 t1_j62cirb wrote
>Also, I’m sorry but any place that charges $12000 per kid per month, then pays employees $13 and hour, is shady as fuck imo.
Yes, and this applies to nursing homes too.
maddieterrier t1_j63lbuv wrote
“Only medical staff members could recommend that a child be taken to a hospital, but to do so generally would have required a staff member to leave campus, putting them out of sync with state-mandated ratios of adults to children, the former staff members said.”
This kid died because they had the bare minimum number of staff.
torpedoguy t1_j645z5p wrote
While they did have a skeleton crew they shouldn't have had, ratios like that are for normal operations.
In an emergency, taking a kid to the hospital takes priority - you're not gonna lose your accreditation or get fined for something like that... well, maybe soon under Abbott or Desantis but even then not yet AFAIK.
Otherwise you'd have to toss kids back onto the fire when the building's burning down if any of the teachers got stuck in. Which, again, entirely feasible with the legislators we have, but to my knowledge not law yet; even DeVos didn't manage to make that official.
Chelular07 t1_j636x64 wrote
Whole heartedly agree
Hundertwasserinsel t1_j62b3d5 wrote
The admins coke ain't cheap
[deleted] t1_j62sar3 wrote
[removed]
orbital_narwhal t1_j63rlny wrote
> $12000 per kid per month
My thoughts when I read that: they better have a staff to student ratio greater or equal to one.
For that kind of money you could easily hire a good teacher with special education qualifications that comes to your home to teach your only child for 4 hours 5 times per week.
Chelular07 t1_j63v69i wrote
You could pay a special needs trained medical assistant to care for your child for 40hrs a week $75 and hour for that.
Harley_Quinn_Lawton t1_j64v0u7 wrote
The schools are all about money. That much we know and understand.
My question is why are parents still sending their kids to these places and getting away with it?
In 2023 they absolutely know what kind of crap happened here and should be blamed just as much as the facility administrators if something goes wrong.
[deleted] t1_j63272r wrote
[removed]
jetbag513 t1_j6171ja wrote
These troubled teen programs should ALL be shut down. I don't think there's a single legit one. With all the bad press recently, I can't imagine why a parent would choose this path. And why they are allowed to exist.
These "centers" are making mega bucks to abuse, sexually abuse, and really mess up these kids' lives. Not to mention using them totally illegally as slave labor. Where are the legislators in these states?
kottabaz t1_j61c381 wrote
> With all the bad press recently, I can't imagine why a parent would choose this path. And why they are allowed to exist.
Authoritarian parents need a more comprehensive institution of authoritarianism to fall back on when their methods inevitably fail. And there are enough adults out there with an authoritarian mindset that their votes result in the protection and advancement of stuff like this.
Igoos99 t1_j61n7y9 wrote
It’s not just “authoritarian parents” sending their kids to these places. These are desperate parents who don’t know how to help their troubled kids.
The problem is, these places sweet talk them into being whatever the parents want to see. There’s hippy dippy ones too. They can be just as dangerous and damaging to the kids locked up in them.
These are money making ventures. They prey on vulnerable parents just as much as they prey on vulnerable kids. (And they prey on those parents’ insurance companies.)
PlantPotStew t1_j626zlz wrote
Yep, they nearly got to my mother, I’m glad she was too bothered by the red flags but I could see other parents overlooking things.
She said she didn’t know if 3 months was enough to get me comfortable with the idea of living outside of home, they said “don’t worry, you don’t have to tell her, they’ll come and pick her up in the middle of the night and just take her” (as if that isn’t at all traumatizing) she asked more questions and one thing they ‘assured’ her with was that she won’t be able to contact me AT ALL for the first 6 or more months I’m there.
The school was located in the USA too (We’re Canadian) and she’d have to pay 10’s of thousands for it, so yeah. I wasn’t even a ‘troubled teen’ I personally asked for therapy myself and at most was just depressed/anxious and over stimulated in regular environments due to my autism. Honestly disturbing these people, who I confided in, recommended this behind my back…
I graduated college with honour rolls in every year, never went below an A. It’s amazing what decent support can do, and I shudder to think what that place would be like if what they told her was the acceptable stuff.
ericmm76 t1_j63p88a wrote
It's frightening to imagine what this kind of environment from the Elan school would do to an already anxious/depressed teenager. I can't even imagine.
All cults are bad. But it's a uniquely bad cult that sells itself not to the people who join it but to someone else to sell their kid into.
E_wrecked_99 t1_j66gil3 wrote
Yeah they got to my mom. This as in the early ‘90s when less was known about these places. She still hasn’t forgiven herself for sending me away to those places and it really fucks with her head. I mean, experiencing guilt is a reasonable reaction, but in many ways she was a victim of the troubled teen industry too. She has long ago taken responsibility for having sent me away, apologized (too many times) and has really done everything to make amends (including taking in homeless adult survivors of these places). I don’t think she’ll ever be over the guilt that she’s dealing with and it does break my heart sometimes. She thought she was doing the right thing at the time and had an unhealthy deference to people in positions of “authority”.
jetbag513 t1_j61cwpy wrote
The kids would probably be safer in juvie or jail at this point.
3x3Eyes t1_j61kvyo wrote
Maybe even homeless.
jetbag513 t1_j61n0df wrote
Seriously. They would.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j6287hz wrote
there was program in soma called paradise cove run by company called wwasp based in st george, utah
this program was so brutal that the clients tried murder another client.
they knew they would get caught for murder obviously but that's fucking desperate they had become.
jetbag513 t1_j629lcu wrote
Yeah, there are endless reports of these horrendous "programs". I read an entire series about them a good while ago. I think it was ProPublica or maybe Slate. It was a good source, regardless. The one was a ranch I think in Montana and they had PICTURES of young girls doing hard, heavy manual labor that was wrecking their bodies. I think someone smuggled in a camera because they weren't allowed phones.
I just remember being gobsmacked that these places aren't being shut down. I get that parents get desperate but for god's sake, in this day and age to be unaware of such a rampant problem and do no research before consigning your child to this hell is beyond me. I think the one place the local yokels were in on the grift and getting quite a cut of the deluge of $$ the place was making. LE, judges, state rep's - the whole nine yards.
KulaanDoDinok t1_j61yeme wrote
Having worked in juvie: no. The system is overwhelmed with kids who are actual criminals, you don’t need to throw in the kids whole. Juvenile detention is for kids committing serious or violent offenses.
Chav t1_j648tpz wrote
Here's a clip of them being pushed on Dr Drew. This is how they convince parents.
http://wwaspsurvivors.com/dr-drew-endorses-abusive-treatment/
theonlyepi t1_j61rac4 wrote
Well since you've been reading nothing but bad things about these places, let me shed light on my experience.
I was permanently kicked out of school in 8th grade for drug and alcohol issues, troubled teen stuff. Life at home wasn't good, obviously. I worked at 14 years old and was able to get into drugs and alcohol young after affording clothes and food.
I was enrolled in a school called "restart", with less than a dozen kids like me fresh out of rehab. Our principal had huge heavy rings in his ears that made his ears dangle to his shoulders. Face weathered, his voice was dry. Our teacher looked to be mid 20s, skinny cute blonde lady. She did the best she could with how intolerable and uninterested my classmates were. She had a really sweet older Hispanic assistant. Honestly I can't remember any of their names, but they all did have a great positive influence on my life at a time when it wouldn't have taken much to push me over the edge. Even my bus driver that drove me out there, 1.5 hours each way... She would pull over halfway and let me out to smoke a cigarette if we had time. She bought me a new coffee pot on my last day with her, I'll never forget that. The kindness and compassion I felt from those 4 adults in my experience in a troubled teen school saved me from being another dead junkie.
jetbag513 t1_j61ul09 wrote
That's great. There is usually an exception and looks like you're one.
theonlyepi t1_j61yc0l wrote
Maybe I was. I believe sad/shocking/disturbing news gets more clicks than stories like mine. People read a couple bad stories of places that are unethical, and just assume they're all like that and have the pitchforks ready. Be careful about how you create bias in your head with choice-fed bits of information!
torpedoguy t1_j647td8 wrote
Glad you got to a good one, but yes, you can consider yourself exceptionally lucky.
The reason the bad ones get in the news in 'bursts' is they get shuffled; a bad one gets shut down after going too far - but only that. It starts up again and does as bad or worse, until it's caught again a few more times.
Eventually after years of this they finally touch someone they shouldn't or a big enough news station gets involved, and that is when the entire stack of complaints and related incidents gets on the news. So less a clickbait affair with these, more a "file cabinet of complaints" found in a basement under some dead kids we finally sift through.
maralagosinkhole t1_j63ruc1 wrote
My dad went to one of these schools and later worked for the same school. When they work well they really work well. The problem with his school was that they couldn't afford to pay anything like a living wage so the only adults who ended up working there were deeply religious and saw it as their mission from god to go help the kids.
For my dad as a child it was a lifesaver. He was in juvie and the school was an alternative. An adult recognized his intelligence and connected him to an outside mentor (a local author) who paid for my dad's college and provided him guidance he was not getting at home.
torpedoguy t1_j646kr3 wrote
Your dad got unbelievably lucky. Like "powerball jackpot twice" lucky.
There are some decent ones out there, but far too many of those 'schools' (and there are A LOT spread 'round the nation, sometimes we don't even know we have one in our own county) land somewhere between Epstein's island and Auschwitz.
X-the-Komujin t1_j61tk42 wrote
I have an experience with them myself I shared in this thread. The simple answer is its conservative small town America having a shitty attitude towards children in general that ranges from "I know better than you, shut up!" to "Well if you went in there, clearly you deserved it!". Never mind the fact that frequently are autistic children and children with other mental disabilities are frequently classified as "troubled".
If you want to truly hate these schools, read the comment I linked above.
[deleted] t1_j64ztga wrote
[removed]
black_brook t1_j61wy4p wrote
“One thing we have agreement on, it’s a tragic circumstance,” said Bill Frazier, the school’s attorney. “Any time you have a 17-year-old die, it’s horrendous and we’re crestfallen by it.”
"Crestfallen" is a really odd word to use about someone dying.
HolidayMagician3110 t1_j62jjq6 wrote
I thought the same thing when I read it! Then I figured he was trying to use “big words” and spoke without realizing what he was saying. Either way, it made him sound like an idiot.
ActivityEquivalent69 t1_j63ogzv wrote
"any time you have a 17 year old die" stuck out to me. Does this happen a lot for you sir?
torpedoguy t1_j644v6a wrote
Sometimes when he chokes the during rape prayers he squeezes them a bit too hard.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j624tsx wrote
I've never actual heard that word before.
DorisCrockford t1_j629f6b wrote
You usually use it to describe someone who has just found out their birthday party has to be canceled, or found out they didn't make the volleyball team. It makes it sound like they're just disappointed that she died.
sopmaeThrowaway t1_j62h3ip wrote
Not sure if that was an insult or incorrect usage. What horrible people.
[deleted] t1_j62s7vw wrote
[removed]
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j62y35u wrote
It’s insensitive at best.
Fryceratops t1_j63g25p wrote
As a direct result of intentional problems with staffing.
Prime_Mover t1_j6cp9eq wrote
Reads like A.I. wrote it.
Single-Moment-4052 t1_j61a5ig wrote
These facilities really bother me. This may be TMI... My teen son was at a charter school, he was in the principal's office for nearly getting into a fight when he shared that he had thoughts of self harm in the past. The school said that he had to have an evaluation before he could return to school, and they gave us a few contacts for facilities that could do the evaluation. We took him ASAP to the facility, I had cold symptoms so I was not allowed to enter. My husband went with him and we are very glad that he did. It was a facility that could lock down, they took my husband and son's phones, keys, wallets, everything. My husband used to work in a facility for juvenile sex offenders, so he recognized the situation pretty quickly. The staff conducted the evaluation and recommended some group counseling sessions but did not mandate anything. However, it is interesting to note that this happened while my husband was unemployed and we did not have insurance. I truly believe that if we had the insurance they needed, they would have mandated that my son stayed for a determined time and we would not have been able to do a damn thing about it. IDK
For what it's worth, our son is in a much better frame of mind with new friends and a nice girlfriend. We are a family that stands by the value of counseling, but we will not let our family be separated and we will do everything to solve an issue together. The whole experience just really made me cautious about the realities of these types of centers. The mental and emotional health of young people is no place for the capitalist industry to dominate.
Chelular07 t1_j61owry wrote
I am so glad your family dodged that bullet. That would be terrifying to me.
[deleted] t1_j64zl63 wrote
[removed]
Bgratz1977 t1_j60ze4i wrote
Reading that article its Murder, plain and simple murder
PEVEI t1_j617orq wrote
Calling that hellmouth a "boarding school" really buries the lede too, the whole system of residential child abuse in the US blows my mind every time I run across another story of it.
BeneGesseritDropout t1_j624hik wrote
Add to that the bitter history of Native Americans and boarding schools ... and this girl was Stillagaumish.
Express_Helicopter93 t1_j64d4x0 wrote
Admin: ’Tis but a scratch!
Figerally t1_j62k113 wrote
These kind of schools are the fucking worst and fuck the state of Utah for enabling them.
I hope the girl's parents sue them into the bedrock and close them down!
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j62ya17 wrote
Missouri has a history of unregulated “Christian” schools for troubled teens locating themselves there because of the state’s lack of regulation.
hubert_ent t1_j641usf wrote
I went to one in Missouri called shelterwood.
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j65a8oy wrote
I hope you didn’t have awful experiences there, as I know some of them can be harsh.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j62m4r9 wrote
unlikely they 20 years of income to fund legal expenses and the department of human services in utah is a Bunch of spineless cowards.
PlayedUOonBaja t1_j63tw6c wrote
I think her parents share some blame here.
SoIomon t1_j63autz wrote
I live in Utah and a few years ago in my 20's interviewed at one of these facilities. It was quite isolated from the town I lived in. First thing I noticed was the company name was a reference to Mormon folklore, a lot of businesses here in Utah to do that to appeal to the Mormon population as a place they can trust
When I walked in the building, the front desk was empty. While waiting I saw through one of the doors dozens of kids with their heads shaved all wearing gray clothes, it looked like a fucking concentration camp or something. Then I heard a man screaming and cursing at the kids the most abusive shit I've ever heard. It was evil and cruel. After a minute of that the man came in to the office all cheerful and we proceeded with an interview.
I was so shocked at what I heard and said this job wasn't for me if I'm expected to speak to difficult kids with threats of violence and emotional abuse. I literally ran out of the interview because I had such a scary feeling being alone with this man. I didn't really know what to do, wish I would've complained somewhere or done some thing about it, but what were my options? This is big business in my county
[deleted] t1_j63kaa8 wrote
[removed]
Fryceratops t1_j63g03j wrote
If they died of sepsis then multiple people should be going to jail. You don't just wake up with sepsis.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j63gcwn wrote
I am pretty tired right now but i believe somewhere in the article the girl had been sick since october
[deleted] t1_j646gzt wrote
[removed]
Pure-Kaleidoscope759 t1_j62xfyo wrote
Sadly, she’s not the only student to die of medical neglect. One boy died from a perforated ulcer in another troubled teen program, the staff had also claimed he was faking illness until even they could see he was seriously ill, but it was too late.
chockedup t1_j638fm2 wrote
Calling Diamond Ranch Academy a "boarding school" is like calling Juvenile Hall the Ritz Carlton.
torpedoguy t1_j643zmz wrote
To the administrators a posh hotel is exactly what it is. Complete with underaged sex-toys on demand and protection of their abuses by law-enforcement.
LudicrousSpeedGoJr t1_j62v5cd wrote
They used to pull this same kind of negligence when I was in the Utah Boys Ranch. Boys usually had to become seriously I’ll before any action was taken. Rot in Hell, Chris Buttars.
TheKerpowski t1_j63ijfx wrote
A great personal perspective on these places is this amazing webcomic: https://elan.school/
[deleted] t1_j6670ig wrote
[removed]
SeeIKindOFCare t1_j6342bg wrote
So negligent homicide
Wheres_that_to t1_j63av8a wrote
Every single adult involved with that organisation should be banned from working with any vulnerable humans and all children for life, not one of those adults has the judgement or skill set required for such a vital role.
And every single adult who worked in the prison (she was not free to leave) should be charged with manslaughter.
Every single adult failed to protect this child, she died, many others will have suffered because of these individuals choices not to do the right thing.
coldgator t1_j63v19w wrote
She was sick for MONTHS and not one adult called 911 or insisted she go to the hospital? Lock every single one of them up and see how they like the medical care they get in jail.
ninjascotsman OP t1_j65uboi wrote
exactly the staff could have easily used a pay phone made anonymous report to child protective services or human services.
TrainsDontHunt t1_j629l0b wrote
They're still ignoring her.
crackhousebob t1_j64gcvm wrote
These camps are more like prisons. Paris Hilton got sent to one and her experience sounds brutal.
Heron-Repulsive t1_j63i5yt wrote
so boarding schools are prisons?
good to know
AsparagusOwn1799 t1_j64dt8t wrote
Reading this article pissed me off so much. I feel so sorry for her family 💔 boarding schools deserve the bad rep they get
dlc741 t1_j64hc6j wrote
I'm sure none of the kids there are molested either.
mamawantsallama t1_j64i1nk wrote
I hope her parents regret their cruelty.
Jaegerschnitzelchen t1_j64l7i9 wrote
I visited a really good boarding school, which i loved. But even at good boarding schools some kids in some situations wont have a house mother, which believes them immediatly/ thinks they are dramatising it. They do not know you since you are born and therefore misjudge the situation. I remember a group of girls needing 1,5 days to convince our house mother, that a 15 years old girls arm was broken (you could not really see it). I myself destroyed my knee on a school skiing trip (whole school) and my kneecap did not have support, therefore if i put weight on it i would just collaps. It was towards the end of the trip (a couple of kids already had accidents) and they thought 13 year old me wanted to be important. I did not get any pain medicine and sobbed silently the whole 18h back to boarding school. They were usually good when it came to viruses or infections.
KilroyLeges t1_j65ld08 wrote
I can’t imagine losing my teenage child. Those poor parents and that poor girl who suffered for so long.
These “Christian” boarding school reform camps are evil and manage to fly under the law while abusing children. It makes me sick.
[deleted] t1_j6137wo wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j621178 wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j626tl3 wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j62na6y wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j631dy8 wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j639j1q wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j639soj wrote
[removed]
Diddlemyloins t1_j653b4p wrote
If you’re worried about mandated ration of kids to teachers who have someone in an administrative role to take place of one of the teachers while they get the child aid. I’m hearing nothing but excuses, and shitty ones at that.
[deleted] t1_j655ssb wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j65b6bv wrote
[removed]
[deleted] t1_j6ca3ho wrote
[removed]
Pandy_45 t1_j6dlrkl wrote
I mean how hard is it to be like "Fine, go to urgent care and get a Drs note." Like at least then the dr can be like yes she's actually deathly ill and intervened.
[deleted] t1_j611o43 wrote
[deleted]
kstinfo t1_j610iui wrote
After reading the article I can't imagine any parent of a child enrolled at this school not pulling their kid out immediately.