Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

totallyclips t1_j28g9dr wrote

And what has it actually done, other than impoverish a nation and create so many sociopaths to run it in to the ground

32

An_Overt_Amalgam t1_j29jtwp wrote

It took a feudal backwater through industrialization and into space. It did the opposite of impoverishing the nation, and it’s a shame it was the disaster it ended up being.

40

Tropink t1_j2c8chb wrote

Russia was already an economic powerhouse, fastest growing economy after the abolition of serfdom, and while they did get richer by exploiting and looting their neighbors with the help of the Nazis (what happened to the eastern part of Poland; and who drove tanks into Hungary to keep them their puppet?), they were much poorer than all their European counterparts; and even Japan, a country with less than a third of its population, no natural resources, that had been ravaged by the war, and had not one but two atomic bombs dropped in them, as well as intense napalm strikes over its country, had a greater economy than the USSR (in absolute terms, per Capita it wasn’t even close). The USSR was a total failure, only second to Mao’s China, or Pol Pots Cambodia.

4

An_Overt_Amalgam t1_j2cf4yg wrote

No, my point was that it was not a total failure by reasoning of it being different from Maoist China or Cambodia, as you pointed out. Unlike these countries the USSR had enough capital to keep the lights on despite losing more than 20 million people in World War II and the purges/famines, and for being a planned economy in a time before digital computing they were pretty resourceful and were able to accomplish quite a lot in terms of economic and scientific development. It was unquestionably a disaster, but it was a worthwhile attempt that unquestionably could have gotten further given a different postwar political landscape, and I think it’s a loss for humanity that we didn’t get to see some of the historical alternatives that could have permitted. The failure, really, was that the violent restructuring of the twentieth century was coalesced into a liberal order that required and was capable of undercutting mass politics the world over to enforce its own terms of geopolitics.

Addressing the comparison to Japan, the two are incomparable: Japan got aid money thrown at them to rebuild and then enjoyed a massive boost as the staging ground for the Korean War, all in a homogenous society in an area the size of a postage stamp with nary a competitor in the region, while the USSR had to recover behind the iron curtain with the same Stalinist regime it was stuck with before. (It’s worth noting that the US was able to do a lot with Japan because their leadership had lost. We came in and immediately enacted massive land reforms, which we turned around and denounced as soon as Cuba tried to do it in their own country because it meant American companies would have to cede land to the public.)

5

cappycorn1974 t1_j29k89m wrote

Ok comrade

−21

thefugue t1_j29v5j4 wrote

No, he’s right.

If you think Russia was bad as the USSR you definitely don’t know how bad it was before. Or now, really.

21

Rhetam t1_j29m3uy wrote

Don't forget the genocides and ethnic cleansings!

11

Gravelord-_Nito t1_j2cn2ro wrote

Nobody on earth has any leg to stand on when criticizing someone else for ethnic cleansings in the 20th century. The US and all the other colonial powers enthusiastically sold entire races into slavery for banana corporations and murdered millions who didn't like it. It really irks me how smug and judgmental Westerners in fucking COLONIAL STATES get over other people's violent checkered pasts.

1

Rhetam t1_j2ctg9q wrote

Here's a hot take: You can condemn both the Western colonial powers and Russia for their genocidal, imperialist pasts.

Fuck 'em both. The only ones who can't are dumbfuck nationalists or even dumber tankies who try to act morally superior but deny the Holodomor or the Uyghur Genocide in the same breath.

4

United_Target8942 t1_j2d6cp4 wrote

This is true, fuck both systems.

However, I rarely ever see people mention that over a hundred million people died due to structural violence, from the british control over india. Yet everytime the USSR is mentioned, people immediately point to the genocides and oppression. Thankfully people are finally adopting the attitude that people like Winston Churchill were in fact a monsters much like the ones that westerners are used to hypocritically pointing at.

The reality is, every single country indoctrinates the public to be hypocrites on geopolitical crimes. At least, i can't think of a single country that isn't.

4

Mrciv6 t1_j29xrxa wrote

I mean the Russian Empire was already those things.

3