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PatrickBearman t1_j10ezyl wrote

Reply to comment by HanaBothWays in Mother facing charges after allegedly cyberbullying her own daughter by Hour_Doughnut2155

>What makes you think the woman in this article didn’t want to have children? >

I literally said "Not saying that was the case here..." because I don't know if this woman was forced into pregnancy. My point was that there are situations like this which could have been avoided if everyone had abortion access.

>Plenty of people who abuse their kids wanted to have those kids.

I understand this, which I demonstrated by stating:

Unwanted children, poverty, and mental health issues are all linked to abuse. While none of these things guarantee that abuse occurs, they all increase the likelihood that it occurs.

I never disputed the fact that willing parents are abusive. My original comment was to expound on, not refute, the idea that too many assholes have children. If you take my comments within context, the only possible read is a) assholes can be abusive parents and b) people can have unwanted children thrust upon them, increasing the likelihood of an abusive environment.

This is what you're doing.

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HanaBothWays t1_j10n1gu wrote

So, you just wanted to shoehorn something about abortion into a totally unrelated discussion, and I’m the problem.

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ElegantLandscape t1_j10vgz3 wrote

Yes actually you are.

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HanaBothWays t1_j10w4oo wrote

Gee, maybe my mother aborting me would have solved me according to you.

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ElegantLandscape t1_j10x5vq wrote

Wow, way to jump the shark, your inability to see nuance during an online discussion is not indicative of you needing to be solved by being dead, but jump to hyperbolic comments for fun I guess?

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HanaBothWays t1_j10xb9t wrote

> Wow, way to jump the shark, your inability to see nuance during an online discussion is not indicative of you needing to be solved by being dead, but jump to hyperbolic comments for fun I guess?

Can’t see what isn’t there!

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PatrickBearman t1_j110c8z wrote

You're the "problem" in that you're deliberately misinterpreting my comments because you're angry that I mentioned abortion. You're extremely argumentative for no apparent reason, so I'm guessing that you either disagree with abortion or you have some experience with abuse. I commiserate if it's the latter. The potential of someone responding like you did is why I specifically included the caveat in the original comment.

The neat thing about systemic issues is that they aren't simple, so discussions about specific events can often lead to discussions other, related issues. Child abuse can and does happen in all walks of life, but there's also specific situations in which this behavior is more likely to happen. It's easy enough to say "this woman is an asshole," but that doesn't do much in terms of addressing the issue. My goal in mentioning abortion (other than it being a topical issue) was to highlight a potential cause to this type of situation that maybe some people wouldn't think of.

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HanaBothWays t1_j111d8e wrote

Dude, I hear the argument “abortion would prevent children from being born to abusive/unfit parents” all the time, it is not something novel. Hundreds of people say this every day! It is a stock argument for abortion rights and not a good one!

It is also gross to bring up because the idea that abortion is a way to solve the problem of “unfit parents” has its roots in eugenicist thinking. And “forcing people who might be unfit parents to get abortions or be sterilized” is not just some theoretical thing, this country was doing it officially through the 70s and unofficially through the 80s or 90s.

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PatrickBearman t1_j1457ha wrote

>Dude, I hear the argument “abortion would prevent children from being born to abusive/unfit parents” all the time, it is not something novel. Hundreds of people say this every day! It is a stock argument for abortion rights and not a good one! >

Well if you've seen it then I suppose everyone else has. Next time I'm considering discussing something I'll make sure to dm you to avoid wasting time posting something that everyone has seen.

>It is also gross to bring up because the idea that abortion is a way to solve the problem of “unfit parents” has its roots in eugenicist thinking. And “forcing people who might be unfit parents to get abortions or be sterilized” is not just some theoretical thing, this country was doing it officially through the 70s and unofficially through the 80s or 90s.

I'm aware. I'm also aware that you're grasping at straws trying to connect my comments to forced abortion. It's almost like you had a knee jerk reaction to something and decided to double down with extreme hyperbole. I never once presented abortion as a solution to "unfit parents." In fact, I said quite the opposite. I'm aware of the history of forced sterilization.

You're the one viewing this as a binary issue. Meanwhile, I outright stated that this is a complex issue and openly agreed with you multiple times. My comments simple mentioned one part of the issue. But hey, why read what someone writes when you can be an arrogant, condescending asshole who makes up arguments for someone who is clearly sympathic to your cause.

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HanaBothWays t1_j149hyt wrote

> Well if you’ve seen it then I suppose everyone else has.

Unironically yes.

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PatrickBearman t1_j14z4ac wrote

It's not everyday someone enthusiasticly perpetuates the "smug lib" stereotype, but I'll be damned if you aren't trying your best.

Good luck with making up shit to be aggressively angry over.

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