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Forsaken-Original-82 t1_ixk1sdm wrote

I wish we could get some "bad faith litigation fines" in the US.

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pegothejerk t1_ixk2a07 wrote

Fines, hell, I just wish they weren't rewarded by escaping consequences and having reduced fines for appeal after appeal

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ArugulaZ t1_ixlbtd2 wrote

Oh Kari Lake, we have a bill for you!

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sodo9987 t1_ixkg5x2 wrote

Too abusable. Sound in theory but in practice it’s a two way street that opens up abuse.

−114

Nandy-bear t1_ixl12aq wrote

Slippery slope fallacy. Everything good can be abused by the bad, it's why you have rigorous protections in place to protect it, and when the abuse happens, you fight it.

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rich1051414 t1_ixkiar2 wrote

I don't agree. If the court is fining people for bad faith in bad faith, the issue is much deeper than that single rule, and is neither caused nor leveraged in it's pursuit. Bad faith is bad faith, and should be punished. Arguing it could be used in bad faith is, quite frankly, an argument so weak it is actually hilarious.

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akhier t1_ixkzlkh wrote

If you can't trust the judge to judge, you have deeper problems

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Mr_Poop_Himself t1_ixlk216 wrote

Then we have deeper problems. I have absolutely no faith in the US Supreme Court at this point.

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akhier t1_ixnrohx wrote

Yep, the highest court in the land is compromised and a lot of lower ones as well. We need some kind of reform and I have no clue what the way forward is.

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sodo9987 t1_ixl02ir wrote

I don’t trust our 2 party system.

−21

akurra_dev t1_ixmciel wrote

Republicans have been using this slippery slope fallacy for decades while literally careening us down the slope of Fascism. Enough of this bullshit: Stomping out Fascism with legal protections and regulations is not a slippery slope, it is protecting freedom from the insidious attacks of Fascists.

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vitorgrs OP t1_ixjzu3n wrote

Minister of the Superior Electoral Court, Alexandre de Moraes condemned Bolsonaro's coalition for bad faith litigation, charges a fine of 22 million reais and BLOCKS and SUSPENDS funds from President Jair Bolsonaro's coalition parties.
The coalition parties are the Liberal Party, Progressists and Republicans.

Without the funds, these parties are basically worthless to elect new people. And even for themselves, since many of them receive a salary from the party.

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SquidbillyCoy t1_ixkhbww wrote

Is that what it feels like for the good people to win?

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Atheios569 t1_ixl16ll wrote

My anxiety over the past year has usually peaked with me saying, “I’m sick of evil winning.”

I’d say good is winning in this instance, and that feels fanfuckingtastic. Go Brazil!

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imlazy420 t1_ixm8x2n wrote

Good people where? lula is just as horrible as bolsonaro if not worse.

−33

Bryanb337 t1_ixmvmdc wrote

How?

This should be good.

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imlazy420 t1_ixn703a wrote

Are you really asking how one of the most corrupt politicians in history is a shitty person? One who will gladly fuck over the people for personal gain? He sounds nicer because he isnt stupid, he isnt going to ruin his reputation further like bolsonaro loves to do at any given opportunity. Hell keep on being a piece of shit like most politicians are, and if someone complains he'll offer the people crumbs, temporary solutions to keep em quiet like he always does. bolsonaro is a raving lunatic, lula is a conniving rat.

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Bryanb337 t1_ixn7vun wrote

Are you really not actually responding? You have given no details on how he is worse, just a bunch of rhetoric. I'll wait for an actual explanation but I won't hold my breath.

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imlazy420 t1_ixn80s1 wrote

...Wait you want me to explain why having a convicted criminal as a president is a bad idea? One who stole God knows how much and is surrounded by people like him?

Welp since you do, he should by all means be in jail for another decade, hes free on a technicality. He was convicted for money laundering and accepting bribes, not to mention he was arrested back in the 80s for a violent riot. Whether he was a violent maniac or a freedom fighter at the time is up to debate, both sides have reasons to lie.

How can you trust someone like that to run a country? Not to mention how many of his party are under suspicion of corruption and connections to drug trafficking. The whole thing stinks.

Between a violent fool who lashes out at his people and a criminal who uses them for his gain I prefer neither.

−8

Bryanb337 t1_ixn8i2i wrote

I want you to give details of how he is worse. Actual details and explanations. You're beating around the bush speaking very vaguely about his political conviction. You haven't actually detailed exactly why Lula is bad and how he will be worse. The lack of detail leads me to believe that you're just basing your views on anti socialism propaganda and you don't really have a full understanding of either man.

But go ahead keep deflecting with your faux disbelief at me questioning your crap.

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imlazy420 t1_ixn9j3y wrote

Edited the comment. I dont mind a lot of socialist ideas actually. I really like our consumer protection laws and especially our labour laws compared to what I hear from other countries. And boy does healthcare help, it is far from amazing but I has saved too many lives to count including mine and many of my family members.

I'm a firm believer the state and politicians should be managers serving the people. They're not leaders, they're representatives. Their job is to make sure the country develops well and the people are healthy.

However, I also don't like a lot of the more extreme ideas of socialism. As much as I hate how our own resources are harvested and then sold back to us, simply taking the companies and resources back can easily be abused and used to take away personal possessions and freedoms they have no business touching. It is a tough situation to balance.

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Draughtjunk t1_ixl4qod wrote

Good people lol. There are no good people in that election.

Corruption through and through.

−44

EntertainerNo3007 t1_ixk58v0 wrote

Man imagine if the US had this ability and didn’t function like a 3rd world country

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Lutoures t1_ixlkqid wrote

Brazilian here. Maybe the US should instead stop seen "First" and "Third World" countries and start been humble enough to learn from institutional advancements beyond the countries of the Atlantic North.

Brazil has this separate electoral justice system ruling the elections since the 1930s. Until now it was basically a measure to prevent fraud on the local level and unify the electoral system across the federation.

Now it was probably the first time that it was tested as an independent power against an overreaching Executive. The fact that they successfully taunted Bolsonaro's coup aspirations is a testimony to the genius of this institution, that should be set more as an example even coming from a "third world country".

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boris_keys t1_ixn6mse wrote

Technically “first” and “third” world is an antiquated Cold War classification. “Developing” and “developed” nations is used more today.

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Lutoures t1_ixn9qtg wrote

Yes, well-remembered. Although I still dislike also this classification, as it implies that the model of development in the richer nations of Europe and North America is the model for all humanity, and the other countries are only "late" at achieving them. This is problematic for two reasons:

  1. Much of the characteristics seen as "underdevelopments" were actually set in the international system for the benefit of the richer countries.
  2. There may be more than one vision of what "development means" beyond the general well-being of people. Different countries, different cultures, different needs to be satisfied.

I still think the best option is stop using those dualistic definitions and embrace categories that recognize better the history, culture and diversity of different groups of nations.

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MurderousMaraca t1_ixmjsew wrote

Well said. Look at individual achievements and stop using outdated general classifications. All countries can and should learn from each other.

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spzcb10 t1_ixot3jg wrote

My opinion is that Brazil is not third world so….

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childishforces t1_ixtqy79 wrote

That’s not what he was suggesting. He suggested the US is operating like one.

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spzcb10 t1_iy4f1os wrote

Certainly is and will continue to.

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unresolved_m t1_ixkq6uq wrote

I have a feeling that someone in Brazil learned a lot from Jan. 6 events

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jjolla888 t1_ixl2p2s wrote

these laws were in place well before then.

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unresolved_m t1_ixm2r1s wrote

Interesting. I thought Bolsonaro would change laws to benefit himself, much like djt did.

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Mesk_Arak t1_ixm6vq3 wrote

Of course he would want to change laws to benefit himself. But that’s exactly why we have a separation of powers in Brazil: to stop a wannabe dictator like Bolsonaro from using the law to his advantage.

Bolsonaro would love to be a dictator, but fortunately he’s not able to due to how the system is implemented.

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixm1cjp wrote

I don't get whats the big deal behind jan. 6. I bet biden doesn't remember anything at all lmao

−30

PointlessGiant t1_ixm2fi9 wrote

You guys really just have the one "joke," don't you?

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixm3i9u wrote

Who said I was joking? Maybe if he asked any of the White House ghosts they could jog his memory.

And of course, a nice handshake afterwards.

−25

PointlessGiant t1_ixmk0tu wrote

Lol good one, it's totally not at all hack and is still funny even after the first 1,000,000 times jabronis just like you dropped it.

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unresolved_m t1_ixm27y6 wrote

Do you think he remembers Bowling Green Massacre? He was a part of it, after all.

Much bigger deal than Jan 6. I know people who lost their relatives in BGM.

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itsthebeans t1_ixmt3oe wrote

The big deal is that Republicans attempted to overthrow a democratic election and incited a riot at the US Capitol building.

Even if Biden was in a coma, it wouldn't change that Republicans staged a coup (a poorly executed one nonetheless).

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixmuyfc wrote

As a foreigner, it honestly didn't seem organized to me, but something organic because of the revolt with the election result.

−8

itsthebeans t1_ixnsz3j wrote

There was an organized attempt to overthrow the election by changing the results in several states to have Trump declared President.

The riot itself may or may not have been organized from the top, but there were certainty militia groups that went there with the goal of insurrection. And the riot was caused by the rhetoric of Trump and other Republicans.

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archaelleon t1_ixknsy2 wrote

Good for Brazil, and therefore, the world.

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RubberbandShooter t1_ixkxzcp wrote

And now President Lula dips his hands into the royal brigadeiro, as is tradition.

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cbbuntz t1_ixk0ebl wrote

Better luck next time, and get fucked

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Jabee_not_gabe t1_ixks9hx wrote

My favorite Bolsonaro fact is he can't put pants on anymore

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plenebo t1_ixlb97b wrote

He's had half of the cases of covid in Brazil himself.

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urz90 t1_ixk56fj wrote

Trump should go console his buddy buddy.

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FotzeMan t1_ixlrxbo wrote

tRump should just go the hell to jail.

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chenjia1965 t1_ixkkjie wrote

Kinda wondering, does anyone have a eli5 for the Brazilian elections? I don’t know their government formatting and phone being slightly dysfunctional

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witchknights t1_ixknhkq wrote

Brazilian here. To sum it up, our election is a first past the post system, with any candidate getting 50% +1 votes declared the winner; in case no candidate wins by that margin, there is a second round with the top two candidates. We vote on electronic ballot boxes since... uh, at least the last 20 years? The rotten carrot outgoing wanted to contest only specific ballot boxes, coincidentally models that went to major capitals were president elect Lula won. The president of our electoral court basically told the party to get fucked. If you want to know anything specific feel free to ask

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chenjia1965 t1_ixku9q3 wrote

I appreciate the information. Sometimes you get wrapped up in your own, you don’t catch on what the rest of the world is going through

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MorgenMariamne t1_ixl4zba wrote

Just to add a little more information: Bolsonaro's party (not the man because if he does that he will be arrested) has only been contesting the second round presidencial votes. Alexandre de Moraes said that the same ballots were used in both rounds, so if the second one is wrong, the first one is too.

They won't do that because that would put all their elected deputies and senators at risk.

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chenjia1965 t1_ixkuyen wrote

Another question since I don’t follow too close, but what is bolsonaros appeal to Brazil compared to what he kept as promised? The only thing I know about him is he’s called Brazilian trump, burns the rainforest, and he’s got an actual military background compared to trump

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putinha21 t1_ixlc7m7 wrote

He essentially came up at a time of a global right wing political swing, following Donald Trump gaining notoriety and the "Operation Car Wash" (Operação Lava Jato) comingo into light. Operation Car Wash happened during the presidency of Dilma Rousseff (left wing politician that became president with the support of Lula).

Right now he basically follows the same footsteps as Donald Trump, he has been pushing "Red Scare" propaganda touting himself as the saviour against "communism" and corruption in Brazil.

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Lutoures t1_ixll35e wrote

Yes, basically this.

Also important to note: Bolsonaro claims the ideological inheritance of the military dictatorship that ruled here in Brazil from 1964-1985. So a lot of his speech worked by calling back anti-communist propaganda and red scare conspiracy theories from this era. Add to this a bit of new evangelical fundamentalim, and you'll have a good idea how he appeals to the conservative electorate.

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RubberbandShooter t1_ixkynqk wrote

Bolsonaro ran on the usual conservative talking points, pushback of corruption, violence, and rescuing of "family values" and Christian tradition. Brazil is a quite socially conservative and religious country, and the governments of PT from 2002 to 2014 became synonymous with a bunch of corruption scandals (look up Mensalão and Operation Car Wash), that tanked the image of the PT party for a lot of people. Bolsonaro then rose up as an "outsider" candidate, promising to not make any concessions to "the system" (even though he spent decades as a congressman who failed to put forward any relevant project), and fight "cultural marxism".

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NetEast1518 t1_ixloff2 wrote

Then you put everything he said in a resonation box called social mídia and you have as a result a lot of zombies that answer any argument presented with a loud: "You are a COMUNIST!!!"

Fear is the most feeling humans have, and they worked it very well.

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixm2s83 wrote

let me give you some advice: Don't use someone's subjective opinion as the representative of the facts, especially when your parameter comes from the internet.

The president-elect, Lula governed the country during what is perhaps the period with the most cases of corruption in the country's history and was imprisoned until recently. The Brazilian supreme court did what it could to free the ex-convict from his sentence so that he would be able to run for election.

The question arises: Why would they do this? Members of the Supreme Court are appointed by the President. As President-elect Lula's party and its affiliates governed the country for more than 20 years, they nominated most of the ministers.

The reason you think of a third world country when you hear the name of Brazil, or think of samba or women is because during the last 22 years no president has made an effort to improve the country, and in that I am including Bolsonaro. To make matters worse, the Brazilian people are idolatrous and follow any imbecile with a political banner, which is the case of Lula - An illiterate, actively involved in cases of corruption (ministers arrested, money confiscated and returned to Brazil).

−6

FruityFetus t1_ixmttx2 wrote

“Don’t use someone’s subjective opinion as the representative of the facts”. Proceeds to supply subjective opinion.

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixmu5vv wrote

Exactly. Divergence is important. If you can point out which points I made are lies, it would contribute to the discussion

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FruityFetus t1_ixmvxmx wrote

Why don’t you just source your points instead. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but it’s pretty hypocritical to call out subjectivity while making a bunch of unsourced statements yourself.

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Full-Watercress-7743 t1_ixmwncf wrote

I said not to assume as facts. That goes for the other opinions as well as mine. I don't see where the hypocrisy is in that. What I said can be easily found by searching for information about the car wash operation and the list of appointed ministers/government.

As credible as an opinion may seem, it is necessary to do research before assuming it as fact. This is necessary so that we do not fall into false narratives from any of the political sides.

0

machado34 t1_ixkqwn0 wrote

Brazil's presidential election is based on majority voting, so having over 50% of valid votes is necessary to win (even if by a single vote). If no single candidate accomplishes this, there's a second round of elections, where only the two most voted in the first round compete, so whichever of them has the most votes will have the majority.

Legislative elections are held by state, but there is no district system like the U.S. Senators are decided by who has the most votes, no majority required (for example, a senator could be elected with just 15% of the votes if everyone else has fewer votes (like a bunch of canditates getting 10%). The House election is awarded to parties by state, and the most voted candidates for each party get their spots. So let's say there is one million votes and 10 spots on the House for a certain state. You divide the total votes (in this case, one million) by the number of spots (in this case 10), getting the electoral quocient (which would be 100k in this example). So if Party X has 420 thousand votes in this state among their candidates, they've reached enough to have 4 chairs for their congressman, and the 4 most voted candidates of that party will be elected, with the rest being their substitutes (in case they need to vacate the chair for any reason).

Apart the election, the actual government system is VERY similar to the US

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NetEast1518 t1_ixlp83w wrote

This system for the quotient for the congressman ejections creates some bizarre situations of a hugely popular candidate in a small party electing a bunch of people without popular votes.

Using the same example. If one candidate have 350k, and three more have 17k they will be elected... 401k votes, 4 seats, one with 350 votes, 3 with 17k votes.

Historically we are very "candidate centric" rather than "party centric" for the elections. Only this year the "social media polarization" (echo chambers) created in the Right the ideia that the "Liberal Party" was the saviors because they are with Bolsonaro... Lots of votes based on the "I'm Bolsonaro's choice for this region". The party is a joke, every time in the top of the wall waiting the decision of the winner to take actions.

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[deleted] t1_ixlzsdg wrote

Another loss for MAGA, which was backing and advising Bolsonaro. Bannon and Trump lose again.

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queerfet22 t1_ixlbhb4 wrote

Fun. Brazil is showing to be more evolved than the US

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VerticalYea t1_ixkn7rs wrote

Didn't he make a promise about what would harken if he didn't win?

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kiwiparallels t1_ixllmv8 wrote

He did. But he has been hiding in his room because he's too depressed so far.

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propolizer t1_ixm6enf wrote

I talked to a Brazilian couple here in the states and they claimed Bolsy was bad but Lula was a corrupt formerly president who was jailed for stealing a lot of money.

I had never heard of the guy before so I don’t know how to feel for Brazil.

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Se589 t1_ixpttpf wrote

This guy still around? Go rot under a rock.

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LazzzyButtons t1_ixk2m6u wrote

How does Brazil’s military feel about this?

Edit: not good, I take it

−42

MorgenMariamne t1_ixl5jbs wrote

They won't do anything. They will have no support from any global superpower (US/China/Russia/EU and Mercosul all support Lula) and they prefer to get out of the spotlight as soon as possible because they're underprepared and undergeared for any fight. Pre-Bolsonaro days were a lot better for them because they could syphon money without consequences because no one would remember their existence.

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