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Bison256 t1_iun25n2 wrote

Reply to comment by IamHere-4U in Homeless People in Lancaster CA Are Being Forced to Live in the Desert by xCeladon

So when they ripe the housing up, or turn it into a drug and prostitution den the what you going do. You live on a Fantasyland.

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IamHere-4U t1_iunc5p7 wrote

au contraire, u/Bison256. The quantitative evidence from housing first interventions suggests otherwise. In Seattle, a housing first intervention saved taxpayers over $4 million within a single year of operation. It also led to reduced alcohol consumption amongst rehoused people. In Charlotte, housing first had saved the county $2.4 million. Outside of the US, housing first has led to a decline in homlessness by 35% in Helsinki. 80% of homeless families in Brno, Czech Republic were able to sustain their flats after two years. Housing first has also been successful in reducing homelessness in Canada. The evidence in favor of housing first suggest that (a) once you put a roof over people's heads, pro-social behaviors are selected for, with decreases in crime, addiction, etc. as people are more eager to utilize social services, (b) taxpayer fees on shelters, jails, and hospitals are reduced, and (c) homelessness is reduced overall, with few people returning to the street.

>So when they ripe the housing up, or turn it into a drug and prostitution den the what you going do. You live on a Fantasyland.

Okay, so you are talking in hypotheticals. I am talking in hard data, and quantitative evidence. So, tell me, who is that is living in a fantasyland?

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Bison256 t1_iundiag wrote

You realize Finland institutionalizes the mentally ill, yes?

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IamHere-4U t1_iundwhb wrote

Many countries do, but Finland is more stringent around the circumstances that one can actually be institutionalized. And, no, it's not the case that the majority of homeless people were institutionalized. Most were re-housed. Your point here is moot.

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Bison256 t1_iunewpr wrote

The people you see everyday on the street are mentally ill. That's who we are talking about here. A normal person doesnt scream randomly or attack people for no reason.

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IamHere-4U t1_iunf8co wrote

>The people you see everyday on the street are mentally ill. That's who we are talking about here. A normal person doesnt scream randomly or attack people for no reason.

And 30% of Americans suffer from depression alone. There is a range of mental illnesses, some of which fully incapacitate people and some of which don't. Additionally, the impacts of mental illness are exacerbated by homelessness. Not everyone who is mentally ill screams randomly or attacks others. This is a gross exaggeration. Plenty of mentally ill people are productive, non-violent members of society.

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Bison256 t1_iunfzrc wrote

I see you haven't seen or read the situation in the West coast cities or NYC.

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IamHere-4U t1_iungo2a wrote

What about the study I linked from Seattle, a city on the West Coast? You know, the study I linked using statistical data? It doesn't seem like you have read anything about the impacts of housing first interventions outside of op-eds with frivolous anecdotes. Until you bring in hard, quantitative data, you aren't making a compelling point.

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Bison256 t1_iunil6v wrote

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/r88k0p/this_city_seriously_has_a_homeless_problem/

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IamHere-4U t1_iuniuqi wrote

Okay, so you linked a reddit comment section? Are these experts on housing who had conducted evidence-based, statistical research on the subject, or just residents who think they know everything about homelessness because they live in Seattle? If it is the latter, I am not interested.

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ForwardYak8823 t1_iuos5y5 wrote

Janitors at union station in LA say they need protection from being attacked while they try to work. You dont give a damn about helping people who clean up shit, get paid shit and have to go to go work everyday and get harrassed and some assaulted and treated like shit.

As fellow janitor I stand with them.

https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2022-04-29/assaults-at-union-station-strike-fear-in-janitors-and-retail-workers

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IamHere-4U t1_iupburq wrote

And by housing homeless people and giving them shelter and security, you keep them off the streets! In turn, they'd be less likely to commit acts of violence. This is the idea behind housing first... essentially, by housing the homeless, most are going to have happier, healthier lives and, in turn, be more tolerable to be around.

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ForwardYak8823 t1_iupldl2 wrote

I am going be honest I have no idea how my comment ended up in a discussion between the 2 of you.

But how long is housing first going take? And who are the contractors receiving taxpayer's money?

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Bison256 t1_iunhpiu wrote

Yeah they're doing a great job

https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-homeless-encampment-cleared-through-governor-inslees-initiative

https://www.kplctv.com/2022/11/01/man-found-guilty-killing-lake-charles-man-seattle-homeless-camp-2021/

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/kent-passes-new-ordinance-tightening-homeless-camping-ban/

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/homeless/homeless-encampment-ship-canal-bridge/281-d83c6f83-803a-4c03-87c7-0ee65607915a

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IamHere-4U t1_iunio32 wrote

Everything you have listed is an op-ed, a news article opinion piece, not an actual study. It's all anecdotal data, nothing that is indicative of larger trends. As I have already discussed, this can all be dismissed on these pretenses, as it wasn't up to par with my terms of evidence that I had already laid out. Additionally, none of the links refer to housing first interventions in any capacity, so I have no idea what you are even trying to prove here.

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Bison256 t1_iunj3sy wrote

Aa I said before you live in fantasy world. You hide behind your cherry picked studies and reject real world conditions

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IamHere-4U t1_iunjdfz wrote

I live in a world of hard data. You live in a world of deflections. In other words, you are so many abstractions away from base reality that you cannot engage real world trends in any meaningful way. You make a lot of noise but no substance. Get lost.

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Bison256 t1_iunk35j wrote

No you don't you live on fantasy your fantasy world were you ignore the actual realty for cherry picked data.

Oh here's another real world news article

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2022/mar/21/homelessness-and-violence-on-the-rise-in-seattle-in-pictures

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IamHere-4U t1_iunk5xm wrote

Another op-ed? Yeah, try harder. Give me an actual study. Not a shitty op-ed that has nothing to do with housing first interventions.

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Bison256 t1_iunkoz5 wrote

Sorry that the real world disagrees with your Utopia non sense.

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IamHere-4U t1_iunl9lk wrote

If that were true, then you would easily be able to find actual, statistical data supporting your argument, but alas, you cannot.

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Bison256 t1_iunofw1 wrote

I'm not writing a 10 page research paper for a diluted fool on Reddit. If real world evidence isn't enough for you you're hopeless.

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IamHere-4U t1_iunov74 wrote

>I'm not writing a 10 page research paper for a diluted fool on Reddit.

What a pathetic deflection. I can see right through it.

>If real world evidence isn't enough for your hopeless.

You haven't provided any. Only shitty op-eds. You are only making a fool of yourself here.

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Bison256 t1_iunpmn0 wrote

Photos and information on the situation on the ground isn't good enough for you. You're hopeless.

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IamHere-4U t1_iunqhml wrote

If somehow you think incorporating photos in an opinion piece with no statistical data somehow informs how efficacious housing first interventions are, then you are completely deluded. If you were at least university educated, you should know the value of statistical data, but alas, I don't see any on your end, nor any that are related to the success (or lackthereof) of housing first interventions.

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