Comments
[deleted] t1_ismv6gh wrote
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radiantwave t1_ismvsl0 wrote
Simple rule of bad governments... If you cannot make fun of your leaders, criticize your leaders, or vocally dislike your leaders... You don't have leaders, you have jailers.
The ability to admit error or fault is the number one best trait in leadership. It is a sign that they are willing to improve and do better. Perfection is delusional when it comes to leadership.
There are some who are better than others, but none are perfect... Even the best are wrong about half the time.
This is why the best leaders surround themselves with people smarter than themselves... And they listen to others
[deleted] t1_ismw661 wrote
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gaynazifurry4bernie t1_ismwot1 wrote
>This is why the best leaders surround themselves with people smarter than themselves... And they listen to others
Like President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho?
Designer-Ruin7176 t1_ismwqed wrote
If you’re not American I can understand not knowing, but on January 6, 2021, thousands of Trump supporters stormed the US Capital in an attempt to stop Joe Biden from becoming President.
There are a whole slew of people facing charges from seditious conspiracy to criminal trespassing, and nearly everything in between.
Ancient-Access8131 t1_ismx107 wrote
In America that's when Trump supporters stormed the US Capital (building that houses the US legislative Parliments) after the 2021 presidential election.
ramhusk t1_ismx12f wrote
“Beware the king who cannot tolerate the fool”
WPGLando t1_ismxnwj wrote
Because people think that other people care about the US burning. cough cough we don’t
Homerlikesdonuts t1_ismy6pj wrote
I couldn't imagine posters of Liz Truss being used to bring british consular staff outside their building to confront protestors, in China
SpCommander t1_ismydna wrote
Jan 6, 2021*. The riots were a result of the 2020 elections which were held in November of 2020.
Edit: As pointed out, riot is too soft a term for what happened. It would be better termed insurrection/attempted coup.
Modern_Bear t1_ismyla9 wrote
When I took a poster of Pooh to the Hundred Acre Wood, Rabbit didn't drag me into his hole and beat me up. In other words Pooh should be the leader of China, not his doppelganger.
fromcjoe123 t1_ismz94g wrote
It's a privilege to have a consulate, not a right.
Shut it down and bar entry to the UK to any of its members.
China will just have to conduct its diplomatic business from their embassy.
This would be a diplomatic incident if any Western nation pulled this shit in China, I'm not sure why the UK should treat this event any differently.
Spiderman__jizz t1_isn08nt wrote
Riot? That was a fucking coupe attempt my guy.
KingGreasyJr t1_isn0itu wrote
Not Sure was a national treasure. And to be fair he was thrown to the wolves until his ideas were proven to the masses
kittenconfidential t1_isn11e3 wrote
well, they publicly let putin get away with murder a couple of times now, so… fecklessness in the face of fascists is probably a good starting point
SpCommander t1_isn1fu6 wrote
that's valid. edited.
deftoner42 t1_isn1rbd wrote
But brawndo has what plants crave! That guy wanted to put toilet water on em.
KingGreasyJr t1_isn1xbc wrote
Hard to argue that point. He did make the stock thingy go to zero and do the lay off thing
He did admit it may have been his fault though. The irony is not lost on me
TronOld_Dumps t1_isn20r4 wrote
Queue to China not understanding why people have an issue with them on the human rights council.
[deleted] t1_isn25vq wrote
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ScottColvin t1_isn3cv5 wrote
Absolutely correct. Shut it down. Immediately.
CJBill t1_isn4nbu wrote
You should see the latest opposition posters in the UK. A leader can should be criticised in a stable democracy.
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CJBill t1_isn54p3 wrote
WTF? Nothing in common; in one case a bunch of right wing Americans tried and failed to storm their government. In this case a bunch of foreign"diplomats" from a dictatorship tried to drag a protester into the grounds of their building to beat them.
China might think that current British political problems mean they can do that; British police think otherwise and they're the power on the ground here.
Bilbog_Fettywop t1_isn7qfr wrote
During the Qing Dynasty, Sun Yat Sen, the dude who would eventually go on to topple the dynasty and bring about a new government, was similarly dragged to the Chinese consular grounds without anyone knowing and was about to be shipped off to China for execution.
Not saying that the protestor is going to do any of that in the future, or that other government embassy grounds are exempt from similar fuckery, but it's kinda fitting. Same witch different hat and all that.
ExpatTeacher t1_isn7qlz wrote
I want to see the portrait.
Watdabny t1_isnbxge wrote
I was thinking that maybe any foreign national that visits any country should, as well as being subject to that country’s laws, also be subject to the laws of their home country when visiting. That’d make it interesting if any one with seditious intentions were subject to the same punishments they’d receive at home
Mikethebest78 t1_isnd3z9 wrote
What are they planning to do drag the entire population of Taiwan onto the grounds one at a time?
I can't wait to see their PR spin on this.
BoxofJoes t1_isneosk wrote
yeah everyone participating in that fit the definition of terrorists to a T
Danimalsyogurt88 t1_isngps3 wrote
If memory serves right Turkish diplomatic staff did this in the US. Where a security detail roughed up a protestor.
It didn’t lead to a diplomatic incident.
Oscarcharliezulu t1_isngtff wrote
They’ve got a brute squad? Inconceivable! I thought the Chinese loved free thinking and the right to have an opinion.
[deleted] t1_isnhcpo wrote
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Dougalishere t1_isnhksn wrote
They legit charged into a group of protesters and started attacking them. On national TV and in front of US police.
Balrok99 t1_isnhpdf wrote
Well except the Republic of China was not so great.
They might have overthrown the Qing Dynasty but the country was still a mess.
Bilbog_Fettywop t1_isni4gy wrote
Tip if you're not a native English speaker.
When you say "Well except..." it is usually to make a counter-point to something said before, like in my comment. Except ;) there is nothing in my comment saying anything about the government that would come after.
[deleted] t1_isnismc wrote
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akat_walks t1_isnjcaw wrote
The ultra authoritarian government that xi has formed is much more dangerous than I think many in the west really give it credit for. He very driven, very smart and utterly devoted to a world controlled by his personal ideology of modern legalism.
InncnceDstryr t1_isnjjgp wrote
Hey, pro-tip if you’re not an asshole. Don’t be an asshole.
Arild11 t1_isnjqt4 wrote
Not much you can do about Putin, as he never leaves Kreml. But the FSB in the UK has been practically neutered since the attempted poisoning of the Skripals. The level of counter intelligence they've been facing is debilitating.
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The_Lapsed_Pacifist t1_isnkknn wrote
You got that right mate and I’m not sure what would. Anti Marmite signs? Even then only half of them would be bothered.
TokiWaKita t1_isnldm7 wrote
> The ability to admit error or fault is the number one best trait in leadership.
Would be, if the media and the opposing party wouldn't immediately spin it as weakness and incompetence.
In today's climate, can you imagine a major political figure flat out saying they made a mistake?
KJBenson t1_isnlha8 wrote
In front of the police you say?we’re just lucky the police didn’t join in.
[deleted] t1_isnmv6u wrote
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theFrenchDutch t1_isnnbka wrote
How the fuck is that related AT ALL to the Chinese embassy beating up someone in the UK ? What are you trying to say ? That it's somehow justified ? What reason do you have to change the subject ?
theFrenchDutch t1_isnnhun wrote
The crazy part is how english police actually entered the embassy grounds to pull this guy out, which they are technically not allowed to do, I think ?
Otherside-Dav t1_isno7u0 wrote
China needs to be looked at, are doing/going to do what Russia are doing
[deleted] t1_isnoc5z wrote
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Matshelge t1_isnogp2 wrote
Technically not, but also dragging anyone in is also against the law, so this is an issue for the courts and China can shut down their embassy if they feel they are not getting justice.
nps2407 t1_isnorjx wrote
Technicalities be damned; they did the right thing.
[deleted] t1_isnot4i wrote
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UncertainMorale t1_isnoycn wrote
They are a literary an asshole.
Jebusura t1_isnpycl wrote
Truss can't answer difficult questions at a press conference. She isn't the one to handle an unusual and urgent diplomatic issue
Nanyea t1_isnq5z7 wrote
UK can shut down the Chinese embassy for kidnapping people off the street...
[deleted] t1_isnql7j wrote
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marcusaurelius_phd t1_isnqyc4 wrote
They certainly can enter if there's an emergency, and the diplomatic immunity means those who hold it can't be prosecuted but that doesn't mean they can't be stopped from murdering someone.
BisquickNinja t1_isnsj26 wrote
I'm guessing it didn't go much higher as the leadership at that time had ... nice feelings... for Erdogan.
[deleted] t1_isnsohv wrote
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[deleted] t1_isnv2ju wrote
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Virtual-Stretch7231 t1_isnvhsb wrote
This is even more of an issue than people may realize. This is Communist China imposing the restriction of free speech on a western country and violently. The UK should not put up with this authoritarian crap. An embassy is a privilege, and is there for goodwill and trust. Not to drag in your own citizens and assault them for freely protesting. They aren’t diplomats, they are oppressors. Declare them all persona non grata and kick the freaking door down.
Also fuck you Xi, you insecure piece of crap.
Downtown_Skill t1_isnw08z wrote
Someone mentioned earlier that consulates have different laws than embassies although that was another comment and I never verified because verification is for nerds. /s The claim though was that embassies are sovereign territory where consulates are not.
Thisoneissfwihope t1_isnw9ef wrote
The rules are different for consulates and embassies, iirc, so maybe it’s allowed.
I also suspect that there’s some ‘risk to life & limb’ exception that applies too.
theFrenchDutch t1_isnwcz8 wrote
That's interesting to learn about, thanks !
Banana-Republicans t1_isnwg68 wrote
Diplomatic immunity does not, in fact, mean you can’t be prosecuted. It means that it is a pain in the ass to do so.
1AMA-CAT-AMA t1_isnxc34 wrote
Are you saying current China and Taiwan would be better off had they continued the status quo with the Qing Dynasty?
People on both Taiwan and the Mainland revere Sun Yat-Sen for a reason. He might have been an idealist and didn’t accomplish all his goals immediately but he did start china down a different path.
That’s like invalidating the articles of confederation because the country was still a mess during that too.
Monkey_Fiddler t1_isnz4uv wrote
Whatever the technical legal situation is, those officers won't be extradited to China to face trial there (human rights grounds are the obvious one, if we even have an extradition treaty).
[deleted] t1_isnz8q1 wrote
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Muronelkaz t1_isnzdhu wrote
And tough man Trump decided to apologize and let them off.
Balrok99 t1_isnzdv3 wrote
In my opinion it would be better for the sake of the entire world if Taiwan was "officially" part of China. ( I know everyone has opinion that and t his is my own )
I know they hold Sun Yat Sen in high regard not denying that. Just saying that the Republic of China was not the best successor to Qing dynasty. Which is why Civil War and many rebellions happened. Also he was president of the ROC just for a very short time and also leader of KMT for very short time.
Makes you wonder how would the events played out if he stayed in power a bit more.
But we should not try to change the history for it might be be much worse than what we have now.
marcusaurelius_phd t1_isnzn7p wrote
They can't be prosecuted unless their government lifts the immunity.
CrucialLogic t1_isnzpqj wrote
Extradited to China? A police officer who was rescuing someone being attacked by foreign embassy workers? Technical or not, they'd never be extradited in any such circumstances and it's ridiculous to even bring up the idea.
ProgressiveSpark t1_iso1i1g wrote
Its not a justification, just an observation
I dont understand why youre so offended
Chimaerok t1_iso2de5 wrote
So technically under UN law / law of nations type stuff, embassy land belongs to the country whose embassy it is. This is a show of good faith, and also lets those working in the embassy abide by the laws of their home country.
What the Chinese did here, then, was kidnap an English citizen across international borders to torture him.
When a foreign country is kidnapping your citizens, that is what I do believe the UN calls "I don't care if it's your embassy China you are violating every notion of peace ever conceived"
Chimaerok t1_iso2n3n wrote
Pretty sure having video evidence of them kidnapping a foreigner into their embassy to torture and/or murder him gives the UK the right to say "Those people are not diplomats"
Chimaerok t1_iso2zjm wrote
Video evidence of Chinese "diplomats" kidnapping someone they have no authority over to beat him in the street and drag him into a building to torture and/or murder him
This fucking dumbass redditor: "But Hong Kong bad!"
[deleted] t1_iso3dfl wrote
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FuggyGlasses t1_iso50m9 wrote
I bet your ass is not a consulates but a CCP police station. https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/police-overseas-09162022095838.html
M3SS3NG3R t1_iso5e6o wrote
Sure ROC wasn't perfect. But with 20/20 hindsight it is still miles better in comparison to the China of today. Just look at what they were eventually able to accomplish. IMO it would be better if China is officially no part of ROC. Then both can at least try to have a healthy relationship (even no relationship is healthier than what we have) and China can finally focus on self improvement instead of blaming their shortcomings on everyone else.
pablonus t1_iso6ca0 wrote
Just leave bags of "fiery poo" at the entrance and then watch stinky feet do their thing. Lol.
TogepiMain t1_iso85r2 wrote
Nope, but I'd trust them as president more than any of the last dozen guys, that's for damn sure
Risley t1_iso86g7 wrote
They should just deport all the nationals that were present at the consulate.
danbeardan t1_iso8dis wrote
At which point they would be expelled, not prosecuted.
Risley t1_iso946r wrote
Because beating up protesters is never an answer
[deleted] t1_iso9r4d wrote
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Playful-Technology-1 t1_isoab9j wrote
They can be prosecuted even without their country lifting the immunity. What diplomatic immunity grants them is the chance to only be prosecuted by their own country.
If a diplomat commits a crime in their own country they can be prosecuted and, if they are charged with an infraction or a crime abroad, they can choose to be prosecuted by the country they're in. Examples could be something so minor -parking ticket- it's not worth the hustle (and it's better to keep cordial relations), something so ludicrous that there's no way the accusation will stand or when they fear worse repercussions from their own government in the case they were brought to court over there.
NorthernerWuwu t1_isoaeo6 wrote
No whataboutism here but the UN hasn't done fuck all in the past when countries have done exactly that and often to many, many people.
tall_strong_master t1_isob224 wrote
That would accomplish surprisingly little. China would just shuffle the perps around like a cups game, and probably harvest the organs of the victims.
Risley t1_isobgso wrote
At least they are out of the country. DEPORT THEM.
Skrimpcitty t1_isochzg wrote
So does China own the UK or what?
[deleted] t1_isoctdq wrote
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sanash t1_isoehaz wrote
Reminds me of when this happened in the US in 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassador%27s_Residence_in_Washington,_D.C.
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JimBeam823 t1_isoh28v wrote
Dictatorships are getting bolder.
Such-Wrongdoer-2198 t1_isoirpz wrote
I was going to say: that does sound an awful lot like kidnapping. Also, couldn't the intervention be justified on the basis of "hot pursuit"? I realize that may not work on international claims, but as others have mentioned, what's China going to do about it? Close the consulate?
CJYD21 t1_isolkvj wrote
Thugs are lucky af this didn't happen in a state like Texas.
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cincimedes t1_isoqp2t wrote
It was a consulate so it doesn't have the same protections as an embassy. Not sure what they would have done if it were an actual embassy. I would like to think that they would have rescued him anyways but who knows.
Averiella t1_isor6q4 wrote
No they both have similar protections, but neither are truly sovereign territories. The 1961 Vienna Convention sets out rules governing consulates and embassies, and guarantees the “inviolability” of diplomatic premises. What this means is the host state can’t barge in without permission but it doesn’t mean the things that happen inside aren’t subject to the host state’s laws. The rule that allows consulates and embassies to act with their own laws is essentially a courtesy in some ways.
For a more historic example, the saudis who tortured and murder Khashoggi could have an international arrest warrant issued against them. The saudis wouldn’t hand them over but they wouldn’t be able to go anywhere else.
Another example of it not being sovereign territory is a baby born in a U.S. embassy does not have U.S. citizenship.
But they DO still have special protections and rules — for example an attack on an embassy is considered an attack on the country it belongs to.
Locke_and_Lloyd t1_isou1n8 wrote
Only until China decides that they also have a right to control Mongolia, Bhutan, Nepal or any other country they want. They will never stop trying to conquer. It's no different than letting Hitler take a few countries in the late 1930s.
The_Yarichin_Bitch t1_isov02i wrote
And they're using HK, which wanted to stop him before they got annexed, to do it. It's fucked up...
LeastRacistGamer t1_isozi7v wrote
When I was in London I got chewed out for trying to take a picture of the embassy's garden. They take their shit seriously.
Dat_Boi_Aint_Right t1_isp0mg7 wrote
Can and can't don't have the same meanings at a sovereign level. They can be prosecuted, but they almost certainly won't be.
Dat_Boi_Aint_Right t1_isp0uh0 wrote
The UN isn't a governmental body in that sense. It doesn't ever do anything,ember nations might do something under the color of the UN.
DeezMFNutsLOL t1_isp4de6 wrote
so much for China honoring agreements
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compassionateasshole t1_isp5e3r wrote
China is the biggest threat to the world and no one is taking them seriously. They are literally pure evil.
SexyOldHobo t1_isp6ffs wrote
There’s a reason the communists have the mainland and the US backed regime is isolated on a little island.
Like it or not, China had a revolution one way, it’s was massively successful, and millions of people in China have been lifted out pf poverty since then. Modern China is a stable state the successfully meets the needs of its citizens
Also the Qing dynasty was weakened by a century of extreme violence (much of it directed by the British against the Chinese during the opium wars), hardly the actions of one man
SouvenirOfTheYear t1_isp9it0 wrote
Lmao, all of this outrage.
Member when Ergodan and his security staff royal rumbled in the USA?
Nothing will happen lmaO
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axonxorz t1_ispfuxg wrote
Don't know what's worse: FSB agents acting on foreign soil with impunity, or that apparently the UK's intelligence apparatus was/is able to curtail it at their whim.
I know counterintelligence is a thing, but I don't know how to read that sequence of events as anything other than MI5 dropping the ball and having to overcompensate.
SomethingElse521 t1_ispgtgn wrote
> But with 20/20 hindsight it is still miles better in comparison to the China of today
It was literally a feudal dictatorship what the fuck are you talking about lmao
M3SS3NG3R t1_isph5rb wrote
When you compare garbage to shit aka the CCP it still smells better KTHXBYE.
SomethingElse521 t1_isph8h1 wrote
Most enlightened western redditor.
Your argument is literally "the thing that was so unpopular and horrific in China that it was violently overthrown is actually way better than the thing they have now that the vast majority of the population likes"
[deleted] t1_ispi4eu wrote
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thatnameagain t1_ispobkn wrote
Just to be clear, this is being reported on because it IS a diplomatic incident.
Sorry-Business-1152 t1_ispub5i wrote
It’s over for XI and he knows it
jordantask t1_ispugfw wrote
China LOVES opinions!
The CCP is fabulous is an opinion.
China is the greatest country on earth and can do no wrong is an opinion.
Hong Kong and Taiwan are part of China is an opinion.
hr2pilot t1_ispv3z2 wrote
Pffft…this is nothing….Get this…here in Canada, our Trudeau government allows the CPC to operate its security forces carte blanche throughout the country.
WeepingAgnello t1_ispvshb wrote
Then watch the full video. It's shown at the end. Is it blocked from your location?
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Sinhika t1_ispwsm3 wrote
Cue more insulting pictures being posted across the street, in full view of the consulate, hopefully. Giant-sized ones.
Sinhika t1_ispx0wg wrote
Modern Taiwan is also a stable state that successfully meets the needs of its citizens. Nobody actually wants a failing archaic monarchy back.
dogsent t1_ispy1us wrote
Great advertising for Xi Pooh posters and t-shirts. Opportunity for a street vendor near the consulate. But not too close. Those guys can get grabby.
WarLordBob68 t1_isq3z43 wrote
That’s because Trump was President at the time.
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alose t1_isqc2ac wrote
Not all of them likely have diplomatic immunity. Throw them all in jail and let the court settle who gets to leave and who doesn't.
Danimalsyogurt88 t1_isqdgye wrote
Yeah, I call bullshit on that.
Any US President would’ve done the same for a strategic ally.
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VentureQuotes t1_isqihom wrote
Brutal that in the Netherlands it’s still illegal to insult the monarch 😬😬
d0ctorzaius t1_isqk71i wrote
>it didn't lead to a diplomatic incident
Tends not to when your leader is financially compromised by the other country's leader.
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IAmInTheBasement t1_isqm3sd wrote
That would have been an even more interesting story if the protesters were packing heat and defended themselves with deadly force.
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Sadiebb t1_isqok6q wrote
It wouldn’t have happened under any other President
randomnighmare t1_isqpfwi wrote
Isn't this an international kidnapping by the Chinese consulate?
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SassyShorts t1_isqtpkf wrote
Queue => Cue
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t_go_rust_flutter t1_isr4o6g wrote
I am not sure this is correct. A consulate is not an embassy.
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Downtown_Skill t1_isrkn0p wrote
Okay for sure! Thank you for the explanation!!
Dougalishere t1_isrvupg wrote
Not really, would have turned into some horrific bloodbath with a bunch of people dead. Not a whole lot interesting about that.
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MajorAcer t1_isss9me wrote
That would be horrible...but horrible things can easily be interesting.
compassionateasshole t1_istvbwd wrote
China is the epitome of human evilness.
Sc0nnie t1_isu1rt6 wrote
Preferably in a rowboat.
Arild11 t1_isv651a wrote
I don't think anyone expected the FSB to act as utterly brazenly as they did, spraying nerve gas in a major Western town. That was unthinkable even during the height of the Cold War, and the KGB wouldn't ever have done it.
Dropping the ball means someone had an idea they had gone rogue state.
TacoMedic t1_isyt9mm wrote
Yeah the RoC was fucking awful until the '90s and didn't really develop itself into a decent nation until the early '00s. It's now a great nation (from an outside perspective, I've never been), but there's a valid reason as to why the CCP and KMT were at war. If the KMT had been a decent (read: non-corrupt) government, the CCP would have never gained the support that it did and China/South-East Asia may be republics today.
TacoMedic t1_isyts3v wrote
>A leader can should be criticised in a stable democracy.
I know this is 2 days late, but you're exactly right. I don't care if your national leader is literally Jesus, I still want there to be people to oppose Him. It's the only way you can ensure you're getting varied, although often flawed, opinions.
Democracies need dissent, it's the only way to ensure they remain democracies.
teknognome t1_isyvv7h wrote
> Not much you can do about Putin, as he never leaves Kreml.
Putin regularly leaves the Kremlin, and even travels abroad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_presidential_trips_made_by_Vladimir_Putin#2022
M3SS3NG3R t1_isyxgmf wrote
Well I've been and in fact my father was involved in the movement that eventually led to the RoC of today. For whatever its fault the RoC never billed itself a bully on the international stage. That for me puts it above the CCP already. Feudal dictatorship? Absolutely. Take a good look at Emperor Winnie and tell me that isn't a feudal dictatorship. So really, pot calling kettle black pretty weak illustration on how the CCP of today is any better than the RoC of yesteryears.
Tef-al t1_it0ielb wrote
Or kill a motorcyclist then flee back home where they won't face charges
Playful-Technology-1 t1_it0locq wrote
Yes, it sucks when you're against someone who's rich and powerful and you're not. Most times, when we're talking about countries that have transparency laws and take seriously accountability and foreign reputation, it works, if we're not talking about those countries, it still sucks that you're against a diplobrat, Trump, Koplowitz, Hearst, Onassis....
Law is clear, they do have to face charges when they're in their own country. It's not like there's any that country doesn't have a precedent on letting the rich and powerful getting scott free .
Oscarcharliezulu t1_it5dsg3 wrote
I think I’m China ‘opinion” is defined as “mandated facts” :)
WilliamMinorsWords t1_ismuwf6 wrote
That's truly disturbing.