These trucks are so expensive that I feel that they've priced themselves towards the people buying lambo's anyway. The average consumer should not care or even think about taking out a loan for something like a truck.

Good. Maybe their stock will recover.

Practical to privileged in under 3.6 seconds. This truck was once affordable and qualified for rebates. It’s now a luxury item.

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Most people have to take out a loan on a 20k car.

Jesus Christ, almost $100k for a relatively untested (consumer wise) top of the line vehicle. That’s a recipe for disaster

My point exactly.

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They're sold out for the next year or two. The problem is manufacturing these new EVs seems to be really hard.

Sales Research Rep: Sir, I have the latest report from dealers on why people aren't buying our cars or trucks.

CEO: And?

Rep: The COVID pandemic left our base consumers financially weak. So they couldn't afford new vehicles during or shortly after the lockdown.

CEO: So? We're past all that. Are they excited about our new EV line? Electric cars are all the new rage for these- what are they called- Millenials.

Rep: Well, no. Inflation has made it more expensive to buy basic necessities. No one can afford a new vehicle.

CEO: Inflation, eh?... Raise prices!

Rep: But sir-

CEO: The people love paying more for food. They'll love our trucks because they cost more. Basic economics!

Also, Ford warranty service is shit and most dealers don't have loaners anymore.

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They say they are sold out for years, yet people are getting them and very quickly.

I ordered an eTransit basically Jan.1/2023 and was told to expect 2-3 years.. they just told me it was being produced and I would get it by April! Wtf?? I had to cancel because I just bought a Tesla and want to pay it off first.

Their point was that most consumers buying trucks are indeed already taking out loans. Even ICE F150s are quite expensive.

"Somebody's got to pay for our mistakes."

Have you actually seen the car market the last 3 years? People are buying cars.

Never forget that this is the same company that produced the Ford Pinto and decided against putting a $11 part that would have saved lives and it was cheaper to just pay the lawsuit settlements.

Not for long. That was the economy high on postpandemic low unemployment, people spending as post pandemic therapy, and all those funds from the government aid.

We are heading straight into a recession, inflation is still hammering the middle class, we have global food and supply issues still, threats of war accelerating in Europe, the chicken industry getting brutalized by bird flu, and a generation that actually believes in and actually takes climate change seriously (rather forgo a new car altogether rather than get slammed by a big corpo for a rediculouly priced EV)..while said generation keeps geting slapped in the face by the points made above, while also having to soon have their studen loan payments come due. Also...the banks, big investors see the writing on the wall, which is why so many of these banks are going bust.

Let's face it, the high of capitalism is wearing off. As a collective society, the West has to keep doing more and more desperate things to keep the economy rolling at full consumption until the planet dies mode. Ecosystems are failing on a global scale and food is becoming more and more insecure.

Suicide and crime, and depression, and hate, and desperation are all at all-time highs... this also does not make for a good driver of the economy. Many people who can, are starting to tighten up their belts in preparation for a big social or economic storm. Those not doing so tend to be living in a hopium bubble in the name of protecting their mental health or have an income that creates its own information bubble.

The pool of those who have the means to spend obscene amounts of money on an insultingly priced EV truck will soon get spent.

The demand was too high. It'll take a decade before they're ready to roll out cheaper trim versions.

No matter how many Tesla stans appear to say otherwise, people want this truck and will pay.

$20k?

These days that's like a 2014 Escape with 90,000 miles.

People keep waiting for the crash.

The sad reality is. Prices aren't ever going back to what they were.

The price really isn't any higher than you'd pay for the equivalent trim of an ICE truck.

Two possibilities. The bottleneck for a critical part was removed, or they had a shit ton of cancelled orders ahead of yours.

Yeah I figured it was a shit ton of cancellations.

Or someone looked me up and thought I would be a good customer for PR since I own an electrical contracting company. I dunno… I was shocked, and unfortunately had to cancel it.

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they literally suspended production of less profitable models like sedans, hatchback and "family style" cars, citing supply chain issues. but at the same time they diverted those resources to higher margin models like trucks and SUVs. Now, they are regularly idling plants and suspending production to artifically sustain low inventory or "shortages".

Lol you are hilariously wrong. The XLT EV with the big battery (320 miles) is 80,000. XLT ICE is 51k

Paying $100k for this vehicle is signing a certificate of stupidity.

I was under the assumption that originally, after rebates and EV incentives, the cost of a base level F-150 could have been as low 38k.

I was thinking about getting one, then I saw the price hike. Imma just get a Prius and wait.

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They aren't comparable despite having the same name you dingdong.

The XLT F150 seats 2 and is a 4x2 truck.

The Electric XLT F150 seats 4 and is four wheel drive.

The same trim level comes out to close to the same price.

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they arent the only manufacturer doing that and both toyota and mazda recently said they want to concentrate on higher priced cars

Yeah, someone's never bought a car!

Welcome to Reddit!

I have no idea what your point is. You said someone should not consider taking a loan out for a truck. The next person disagreed with you and pointed out that even a $20k car, which is modest these days, will be bought on loan by the vast majority of buyers. And their point, and mine, was that typical trucks are more than that (like 2-4x more) and are indeed bought with loans all the time.

This is wrong. I owned a 2016 XLT. Super crew with 4x4. I had a preorder on a lightning xlt. Very comparable between the two.

Where can I find proof that this is legitimate, for idiots that I’m related to?

Yes, the 51k price he was quoting was for the barebones 2 seater. Totally different than super crew, 4x4 and other options added on top. Prices aren't that dramatically divergent.

They're just ensuring that most people won't own electric vehicles any time soon. I was curious about replacing my work trucks with electric, but when I saw the price tag it'll have to wait another decade or two. Not a goddamn chance I'd pay anything close to what they're asking.

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"As low as" 🤡

Zero sympathy for the people who keep buying utility vehicles they don’t use for utility. Electric or not. Yes companies are gouging, yes I’m upset about it, but almost No one buying these $70,000 luxury trucks needs them or uses them for anything but stroking their own ego.

90% of the trucks in this country are small-peen bro-dozers.

450 King Ranch costs just under 100k

That's total nonsense. The Lightning is a new vehicle and the ramp-up is a real thing. It's completely separate from the change-over from cars to SUVs and trucks, which is 100% consumer-driven. If you prefer a cheaper sedan, then buy one - they still exist. If enough people buy them they will become scarce and the price and profit will rise. Then they'll make more of such more profitable vehicles.

The move away from sedans is driven by people being richer than they complain to not be on reddit.

Welcome to Tesla, may I take your order?

Dear lord, that's an awful lot of argument against reality. What a sad, pathetic way to live, believing that reality sucks because even though it is actually great it might temporarily get worse in the future, maybe.

If you were shocked, you must not be a very good electrical contractor.

(I had to, I'm sorry. My dad was a sparky and would have risen from his grave to wag his finger at me if I'd let that one pass.)

They are maximizing profit (er -- R&D recovery) while they ramp-up production.

Heck yeah, refused to fix the trans in one of my cars because “failing and failed are two different things and we won’t get reimbursed for fixing it until it breaks”

Finally failed a couple months after warranty. It was even worse than Alfa Romeo dealership customer service.

I believe OP was trying to imply that an F-150 lightning was a luxury purchase at the current price and likened it to a Lambo purchase, which is silly.

Tonawanda is right, and OP is silly, as most people take out loans to pay for their vehicles.

You seemingly agreed, and another poster insinuated that $20k barely gets you a 10 year old mid-sized used SUV.

I took out a $50k loan on a $60k car because it would have been even money or cheaper over the course of the loan and didn't impinge my spending ability. I think you understand that until recently, financing was the viable and sensible option for purchasing a large purchase. Everything has flipped in the last year though...

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Might consider a Chevy Bolt; half the price of the F150 and you're not lugging around an extra engine like the Prius.

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The base price of the Lightning Pro was $40k and some people actually got it for that much. Then they increaee the price twice to around $55k and said no more Pros are available for 2022 and 2023, conveniently only leaving the higher trims with not many added features. You basically pay $80k for the same truck the Pro is.

That was a year and a half ago. They’ve priced too many people out of the market with their greed. If you want a Ford Lightning right now and have $90k, you can have one. I just cancelled my reservation from 5/2021 as did many others.

Same thing with houses.

Hold up. Now, I'm. Not suggesting the post above you was all rainbows and dancing, but bro, have you lived under a rock? Shit is less than ideal right now.

Just because it's depressing, doesn't mean it isn't mostly accurate.

Demand exceeds supply at this point, true. Thus, my final line from the CEO. With the exception of the Lightning, it can be argued that the demand is being artificially inflated. Depending on where you live, only a certain number of EVs shipped to dealers in that area. Consumers see the limited supply, buy what they can quickly, the purchases show demand is high.

As for people buying quickly. Not for new car dealerships in my area. New car dealers' lots are full. If you look at the used lots, that's where sales are being made.

Thus, the final line from the CEO. And it varies from area to area. All new car lots in my area are full to the gills and not moving (there's a $77k F150 Lightning that's been sitting at the front of the lot of a dealer for 7 months). While the used lots are selling almost faster than they can supply.

My uncle paid like $30k over MSRP for his. All he does is talk about how much he loves it. Especially the frunk that has a drain which he uses as a cooler for tailgating.

That's because it's the ford f150, the most sold vehicle in the US ever.

It's also the F150, the most sold vehicle in American History.

Hate to say. I own my house and bought it just before interest rates started going up. So I cheer this fact.

To be fair. They're not wrong. It's now a matter of "what do we do about it?"

Xlt now costs as much as a lariat.

If those vehicles sold in American history weren't at these prices then we might as well name the dollar bill Charmin and imagine our brave history of flushing it down toilets.

My comment still stands. I can pay $60,000 for a loaded supercrew XLT, whereas the extended range XLT with no other options is $95,000 (the standard range with no options added is $79,000). And those are lightning prices listed on fords website, dealers are still marking them up another $10,000 in my area.

Exactly. 100k for any Ford truck is being abused. 100k for that electric truck is asking to be abused and made fun off, then posting on instagram, proudly. Clown certificate earned. But hey, at least its a free country…

There’s a new F-150 Raptor in our local (economically depressed WV) Ford dealership priced at $105,000. It still blows my mind that there are people so wealthy out there that they would pay that much for an off-road vehicle that will likely never see dirt or mud. And it’s not a jealousy thing I would not mind seeing that sort of thing if they also produced a pick up truck for people who actually work. Something in the range of 25 to 45,000; they have the Ranger but the truck is so small you can barely fit anything in the bed is it really isn’t all that off-road capable. They just seem to have lost touch with the customers and only cater to people buying for vanity or hauling quarter million dollar campers.

There's a barely used, but still used, f150 lightning at my local dealer too. But it's a loaded platinum so the price is like 120k. No wonder it's been sitting for a few months.

There is such a disconnect between manufacturing and the public it’s fucking insane.

Here we all are struggling to buy groceries because EVERYTHING is going up and all of these people who make shit (cars and other products) continue as if everyone has the money to by an fucking f150 xlt trim for 70 fucking k. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

In 2013 i bought a brand new F150 Platinum for 48k. Now you can hardly find an xlt for that.

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Frunk is my favorite new word of the day in awhile.

I drove around the Chevy bolt as a rental a month or so ago & that thing feels so compact & tiny! Way tinier than my prius @ home & I have a c. I'm 5'4 & my head just about touches the ceiling of my prius as it is lol

There’s no disconnect. These companies just don’t care about you. They’re making record profits by targeting wealthier, high-end consumers.

I own a Bolt, I’m 6’1”. And I completely disagree, head doesn’t even scrape the ceiling. Although I have an EUV not an EV. But I have more space in the front then my wife’s minivan or my dad’s truck.

I appreciate you being in a smaller car being so tall haha but ya on my prius the back has the most space I think but the bolt I felt the front was a good amount of leg room compared to mine but it's just the compactness vs my prius c that deters me from being a fan of the bolt.

Edit: yall are so weird for down voting this lol

Yeah I reserved an "order spot" back in May of 2021, thinking I might need a new car by the time they became available. $40K was way over what I've ever paid for a car but I liked the idea of using it as a generator if house power went out. Got my 'time to order' email yesterday and to get the one of want would be $83k 🤯 Put my down payment and trade-in value in an auto loan calculator and my payment would have been $1,300, that's more than my mortgage!

Ford is imploding. It's embarrassing to watch them get bullied around by dealers on profit margins after talking tough about markups. They keep raising their prices on EV cars after staking their entire company on getting EV costs under control. Farley is a dipshit.

And never forget they decided to shut down production on the Edge, a proven model with a huge following, to go all in at the Ontario plant on EVs that STILL aren't matching the output they had and profit potential of the Edge...it's pure chaos at Ford these days which is heartbreaking.

Just milk whales. It works for gacha games.

Not wrong, yet still downvoted. Hopium is a powerful drug.

It's the answer to your question about what to do about it that is so depressing and also why so many people are living in a hopium filled fever dream.

Was your seat lowered? My husband is 6'8 and his head does not hit the ceiling of my Bolt.

XLT F150 4x4 5 seater supercrew is 53,850. Your username is pretty relevant here :)

You can always tell the actual work trucks because they are 10 years old and look like shit because the people that own them actually use them for work like the tools they're supposed to be.

I bet my Colorado (which is already a pretty big truck in absolute terms) have moved more cargo than 95% of the stupid lifted F250s I see rolling around blowing smoke.

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We're stopping production of gas operated vehicles slowly over the next 10 years. Also here buy our unaffordable replacement!

I really hope we figure it out. I'm sure they'll become more affordable over time but... I don't see that being any time soon.

That IS the disconnect. No shit it doesn’t care. Everyone knows this. There are MILLIONS of people they could sell products to but they cater only to higher classes.

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Weird flex but ok.

Same my mortgage is $875 a month. I just can not justify spending that if more on a vehicle and this was going to be a farm truck, which for me, means I would put maybe 1000 miles a month on it max. Even generally using it, it would probably last forever, I still can’t justify that cost.

Just wait till it gets delivered to a dealership who then sees you as ripe for another screw job. Many news articles exist of insane dealership "just because we can" markups. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who actually gets one of these ends up paying $150K when it's all said and done.

I don't think they ever asked for your sympathy. People can decide how they want to spend their money in a free market economy and they not only spend their money on things that they need but also on things that they want.

Lol! Cheers to your dad, how long was he a sparky and what kind of electrical did he do?

I mean people are shocked the most sold vehicle isn't cheap when turned electric, I don't know what to tell you.

“Disconnect” to me seems to imply that they’re not understanding consumer needs. My point is that they understand consumer needs quite well. They just don’t see any profitability in meeting those needs.

They’re connected. They hear you. They just don’t care about what you’re saying.

It's completely wrong. That's what "argument against reality" means. They're arguing that things (reality) suck, which is objectively false.

>Hold up. Now, I'm. Not suggesting the post above you was all rainbows and dancing, but bro, have you lived under a rock? Shit is less than ideal right now.

Prior post: Things suck.

Me: Things are great.

You: Things are "less than ideal".

There's a wide gulf between "perfect" and "suck" and "less than ideal" fills the entire gulf. "Great" is in there too. You didn't actually disagree with me, you just gave a wishy-washy/meaningless characterization.

No, things are not "ideal' (perfect). I didn't say they were. They're merely great.

Oh they have enough trucks for $40k, remember they actually have to add features to sell the other trucks. Those $40k were barebones and battery. They just literally do not want to sell at that price point. They’d rather sell one $90k truck versus four $40k trucks. Doesn’t really make sense to limit the visibility of your brand new model and revenue stream on the streets.

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Also, people are starting to return them as they realize that commercial was a gimmick.

I'd love one. But looks like I will be waiting 10 years until I can get one used.

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que all the people saying the traditional OEM competition was going to be way better at manufacturing the vehicles while also not understanding anything about battery manufacturing being the bottle neck and the most expensive component for EVs.

LG energy packs are not able to keep up with demand because the big three mostly put all their eggs in the LG energy basket and its now becoming a problem.

manufacturing EVs is easier, less parts and especially moving parts. The main issue is battery cell/pack supply is going to be constrained well into 2027. Ford has a new battery facility they are opening up 2025 with SK innovations instead of LG energy ,both of which were involved in a lawsuit claiming SK stole LG energy designs and were banned from selling packs in their GA production facility to VW and Ford.

100K car all so you can pay another 20K in a few years when you need a new battery.

And making the working class not able to afford proper transportation to and from work is bad for the entire economy not just automotive.

The disconnect is with THEM. Not us. Their idea that only the wealthy matter IS the disconnect. Disconnect doesn’t mean “doesn’t think about it”. It means they fundamentally fail to realize the importance of supplying the people with their needs. Regardless of their thoughts on it, the disconnect is that they purposely don’t care. They are making money “now” and are disconnected from the wants and needs of the majority of the population because all they see is big immediate bucks for a single purchase and not sustainable growth.

🤷🏻‍♂️

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every single conglomerate in the vertical market space is imploding. cash grab before the massive crumbling of global house of cards. spend it all, live it up, our days are numbered.

They are artificially sold out. That’s what I’m saying.

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Same company that currently has fuel injectors that crack and fill engine valley with gas. But instead of replacing said injectors they are installing a drain tube in the block. FSA 22s73.

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Damn. That’s a depressing take.

Still sort of affordable because it is an electric truck. If you have a gas or diesel work truck the difference between the $40k and $80k electric F-150 is about 2 years of fuel savings.

I guess I should have been more specific about what I'm saying isn't wrong. I'm saying all that stuff that was mentioned does exist, and it does suck. I get that's being subjective and some of the stuff in the comment is probably inconsequential to their immediate personal life. It still sucks. So, what can we do about it?

I'm a clinical optimist.

Well then, here's some reading for you.

https://archive.org/details/brightsidedhowre00ehre/mode/2up

>I guess I should have been more specific about what I'm saying isn't wrong. I'm saying all that stuff that was mentioned does exist, and it does suck.

No, I know that's what you mean, and it's wrong. Basically everything that guy said that's specific enough or backwards-looking (so available facts to support/refute) is factually wrong. Just one example:

>...crime... are all at all-time highs...

There's lots of different crimes, but most of them peaked in the 1980s. Here's murder:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187592/death-rate-from-homicide-in-the-us-since-1950/

Note: it went up a bit during COVID to 6.9, still way below what it was in the 1980s.

"violent crime"

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/IF12281.pdf

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Read and used that book as a piece of evidence when I taught toxic positivity and its negative impacts. Thanks for pushing education on me. Still support your original comment as completely valid.

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