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T1mac t1_jdw3tl2 wrote

This is Putin's worst nightmare.

He illegally invaded Ukraine because he thought having a democratic and western aligned nation on his border was bad for his authoritarian autocratic regime. Now he's got Finland which is going to be a NATO member and it's a more democratic and independent nation, and its border with Russia is more than twice as long and than Russia's border with Ukraine.

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supercyberlurker t1_jdw8s9v wrote

Good. Putin should be a lesson that old abusive authoritarian crap doesn't fly anymore.

Sure we're seeing the desperate grasping for it from authoritarians around the world, but people are waking up to what things like gaslighting are, to Putin's game, to how the power-obsessed will always strive to gather themselves more power.

No, the world isn't awake to all that yet.. but that's why lessons like this, where the attempt to abuse Ukraine blows up in Putin's face instead, are important.

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Zixinus t1_jdwa1xt wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

It is also a humiliation because Putin's was that the war was caused by "NATO expansion". His war against Nato expansion? Causes previously non-Nato countries that avoided NATO membership in fear of upsetting Russia to... to suddenly join NATO because they see that Russia will invade a neighboring while violating their previous security guarantees to a nation that they are dead-set on invading and joining to their own country.

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JWBeyond1 t1_jdwcxxo wrote

This is why it’s so important for us to bond with our Allie’s even if we have big differences. We need to send Putin and long and clear message. You will not extend past the ukraine. Finland is an amazing country, they’re our friends and they deserve to be part of this.

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RetroBowser t1_jdwf9mp wrote

Replying to supercyberlurker (#2,396,013)

The technology age was really important for this, and the Internet is still quite young. I live in Canada. If I was born 100 years ago and this happened then, there'd be no chance in hell that I heard about this war at all, and even if I did somehow I would never get the view of it that I have today. I wouldn't have been able to see the videos. I wouldn't have been able to talk to others around the globe about it and try to raise support and awareness.

I'd just be some nobody in my country who hears about something happening in some place I never hear about and will never have to go to. It'd almost be as if it wasn't happening from my perpsective.

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Powerpuff_Rangers t1_jdwj7hh wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

The word on the street is Putin didn't actually expect them to break the 80-year nonalignment tradition and apply for membership. But it's based on anonymous Kremlin sources so take it with a grain of salt.

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Kracus t1_jdwjete wrote

Replying to Zixinus (#2,396,167)

Meh, you can't really quote Putin on that kind of stuff because it's all bullshit to begin with. I can't logically believe Putin thinks NATO is going to invade Russia, at least not prior to him starting his war in Ukraine. His excuses for the war like NATO expansion or Nazi Ukrainians is all bullshit. He wants those resources and he wants to control the bottle necks into Russia. After the USSR collapse they lost so much population it set them back so hard they're still feeling it today.

Frankly, if their government wasn't so corrupt and they'd bothered to actually promote family and a more democratic government they'd probably be doing a lot better but instead they decided to go with an oligarchy and slowly trying to invade countries that left the USSR to recapture both, the population, and the borders they once controlled.

Now Putin is at the point where he fucked up and is desperately trying to unfuck his situation and it's not working. Hence why nukes are being shipped to Belarus. Come spring we're going to see how this is going to play out long term and I suspect it's not going to be in Russia's favor and the likelihood of tactical nukes being deployed is going to be much more likely.

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DonutsPowerHappiness t1_jdwlnje wrote

Replying to Kracus (#2,397,376)

The rhetoric matters, especially about invading Russia, because of the territory Russia annexed. They now believe it to be theirs by right, so liberating it for Ukraine is sold to Russians as Russia being invaded.

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Zixinus t1_jdwpcxs wrote

Replying to Kracus (#2,397,376)

You are correct but this is the official line and what is being sold to the Russian population. Russian population hears about Putin stopping NATO expansion and NATO expansion happening anyway, what do they think? Putin is weak and losing his grip. That's not good for Putin's power, which is built on his strong-man image. Nothing can destroy a strong-man image than losing a war he thought he'd win in a week.

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drinkingchartreuse t1_jdwr9au wrote

Hungary and Turkey need to get over it and do the same for Sweden as well. There needs to be a uniform front across Russia’s borders to contain them.

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EskimoeJoeYeeHaw t1_jdwrvvm wrote

Why not Sweden too? It's unlikely he has problems with the Kurds the way Turkey is stating. I assume it's all part of their collective game of appeasing Putin.

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usrevenge t1_jdwy05l wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

I think it was less that and more Sevastopol.

Russia wanted the area around it to ensure the sea port would be protected and be resupplied without bridges and ferries

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CharToll t1_jdwzcw5 wrote

Closer to a united front against the impending Russian stupidity

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RetroBowser t1_jdx8om7 wrote

Replying to BenjamintheFox (#2,400,438)

Okay great. You're a citizen in the year 1923 who had just read a small blurb in your local newspaper about some war going on overseas in some country you've never visited. Not only is your interpretation of what's taking place limited in scope, it's also potentially inaccurate, and much more delayed to update you with current events. What is your plan to get your message out to the world?

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CrackHeadRodeo t1_jdxi0yp wrote

Well, color me surprised! I wasn't expecting Orban to do anything sensible.

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frealfr t1_jdxj8w6 wrote

Thanks! Now I'm Hungary.

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ArnoldBlackenharrowr t1_jdxmgkz wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

Call me silly, but i dont think this is an actual problem for putin. He just wants ukraine territory. All the nato bullshit is just an excuse. There is no way he actually would have messed with an EU country. Ukraine and moldova, and to an extend georgia, are the only invadable countries in europe. And he has his foot already in the door of all three. And with invadable i mean countries he cant comfortably use as a puppet state like most of central asia, belarus, and so on.

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Joebranflakes t1_jdyrccs wrote

I feel like anyone who is trying to say that Putin cares about this is fooling themselves. It’s quite obvious that what Putin says in the media is a carefully crafted narrative designed get people to miss the point entirely. He invaded Ukraine because his country is failing. Population growth and economic growth is stagnating. Quality of life is downright bad. He needs oil and natural resource revenue to maintain Russia’s appearance of strength and eventually hopefully find a way of recovering.

When he started the war, he made a lot of assumptions based on the assurances of grifting yes men. He assumed his army, the legendary Russian army, would cruise to victory like America in Iraq. Heck if he managed to seize control, we’d probably be treating Ukraine more like Crimea at this point. Just another chunk of “illegally” seized territory but getting a heavily armed Nuclear power to give the land back… well it wouldn’t be an option. Just a bunch of sanctions and a decade or two of grumbling until the west finally gave up on the issue and moved on. But he didn’t win, and instead found out he lost a war he couldn’t lose. He gambled and lost big time.

So what does he want to accomplish now? You have to ask yourself, what would be the way forward for Russia? To give up on Ukraine and become the laughing stock of Europe and every former Soviet Republic? With crippling sanctions and the drum beat of war reparations grinding his country down to nothing? Or to keep fighting to keep that fear and doubt alive? I think really that’s his only hope.

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Jimmy-Pesto-Jr t1_jdz083z wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

>Finland which is going to be a NATO member and it's a more democratic and independent nation,

in fact, the best of the buiz - Finland ranks among the absolute lowest in corruption, and highest in freedom of press & speech, education, happiness - even by European standards.

plus Finland has a long and colorful history of obliterating Russian troops.

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akurra_dev t1_jdz1i9q wrote

Replying to Powerpuff_Rangers (#2,397,343)

After what we've seen in Ukraine, I don't think Putin has a logical or sane thought of any kind. Scientists could do an autopsy and find that his head is literally full of human feces instead of brain matter, with no biological explanation for why, and I would not be surprised in the least.

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JuicyAnalAbscess t1_jdz1zo0 wrote

Replying to T1mac (#2,395,288)

Sorry but your last sentence is incorrect. Russia's land border with Ukraine is nearly 2,000 kilometres long while the Finnish-Russian border is about 1,300 kilometres long. That however is slightly longer than the border which Russia shares with all current NATO countries, 1,215 kilometres.

But to add: Finland's admission does more than double Russia's border with NATO so it is rather embarrassing for Putin.

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aister t1_jdz7jnp wrote

Replying to RetroBowser (#2,400,912)

1923? I would just close the paper, buy some more stock with all of my money, fully expecting to make 5x the amount in 5 years or even more. The world is peaceful, we're in the golden era, there will be no more war. I mean, they just went through THE world war that was so devastating, there is no way they would go into another world war.

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aister t1_jdz81a9 wrote

Replying to Zixinus (#2,396,167)

Want more fun facts? Ukraine could not join NATO with an ongoing conflict. At the time, they already fought against the seperatists in Donetsk, as well as having Crimea occupied by Russia. The only way Ukraine could join NATO is to either win against the separatists, reunite Crimea, or forfeit those teritories.

All Putin had to do is to play a long game, keep on pumping money and weapon to the separatists, and he would achieve even more than what he's got right now.

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phaedrag t1_je0lsjb wrote

Stopping NATO expansion? Estonia and Latvia are NATO members and have borders with Russia, why doesn't Putin have a problem with those countries?

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Drando_HS t1_je0mdnk wrote

Replying to Zixinus (#2,396,167)

It was never about NATO expansion. He doesn't give a shit about NATO. (Or rather, he didn't until he realized that NATO's alliance wasn't as weak as he thought it was.)

Putin just wants Ukraine. The "ethnic Russians in Donbass" and "NATO expansion" is just fake justification. It's nothing but a greedy, imperialistic land grab. He's going to throw Russians into the meat grinder until he either owns all or Ukraine, or until he fucking dies.

Why is he doing it? Look at basically any major successful project from the Soviet Union. The Moskava. The T-34 (and subsequent Soviet-era models). Kharkovchankas. That massive plane I forget the name of and too lazy to google.

All of it was built or designed Ukraine. Ukraine was the industrial heartland of the USSR. There is no USSR without Ukraine's industry and resources.

Putin simply wants it for himself. He wants the industry. He wants the ports. He wants the breadbasket of Europe. He wants another avenue for gas pipelines. He wants the glory and power of the USSR, because despite what Putin wants you to believe, the USSR was never just Russia.

It's nothing but a resource-grabbing imperialist expansion in an attempt to "save" Russia (read - make himself look good and even richer).

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Zixinus t1_je1iku9 wrote

Replying to Drando_HS (#2,419,270)

Also, you should add what is the true driving cause of NATO "expansion" (there is a reason I put them in double apostrophes): Russia's treatment of its lackey countries.

With the exception of Hungary, whose prime minister went from "russians go home" to "we must protect russian oligarchs from sanctions" by the good old Hungarian tradition of institutionalized corruption, every ex-USSR member either became a NATO member, wants to be or became like Belarus with dictators.

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