Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

KulaanDoDinok t1_jdcriq5 wrote

Reply to comment by skytomorrownow in Body is 17-year-old accused of shooting 2 at Denver high school, Colorado coroner confirms - CNN by oldschoolskater

No Child Left Behind Every Child Succeeds Act. A child can’t be expelled without finding an alternative.

117

DTFH_ t1_jdcw848 wrote

That's not quite the full truth, they can be expelled BUT the school loses funding for that student and is required to pay for an alternative, so this school like all do the calculus and 99% of them choose to keep funding rather than send the student out of district and potentially be on the hook to pay more than the student generates in district. Basically profits over people at work yet again.

97

Banshee3oh3 t1_jdcxk3h wrote

As someone who has lived in Denver since conception, East is a MASSIVE high school. Probably one of the biggest in Colorado. Keeping 1 student that might bring in 1/5000 the budget at the expense of every else’s safety is pretty dumb. Not only that, but East is also pretty wealthy in comparison to other public Colorado schools. No excuses here not to expel him. It’s more about how Denver sacrifices the future of everyone for a select few disasters.

66

DTFH_ t1_jdcxvxo wrote

From Denver too and they may only bring in 1/5000 but the alternative could cost 4/5000, so a net loss, this is not specific to Denver but to all education in all states. With this in mind you'll understand how this totally 'unexplained' tragedy keeps playing out time and time again with a new shooter in another state.

34

Banshee3oh3 t1_jdcydv1 wrote

I just explained how this entire thing could have been prevented. Stop trying to save every single kid. I’m sorry but some kids just have it made to end up in a cell or a ditch. That’s the reality. Expel students who are deemed a legitimate threat, and stop searching them every day. That only agitates the situation.

21

DTFH_ t1_jdcz7a7 wrote

Student safety does not matter, only cost; the motto in this country is 'money over people'. That's why HS graduation rates are at all time highs while reading scores of those graduating are at all time lows. The courts have ruled teachers are not entitled to safety and the police are not there to protect the people.

30

Banshee3oh3 t1_jdczps0 wrote

Yeah sadly… The entire public education system is on a whole other level of screwed. Maybe appropriately adjusting student costs to be equal with budget increases per student would fix this. Right now, the cost to keep a student enrolled is lower than the budget increase you get from 1 student. That means it’s ALWAYS a net positive to keep them in school, or what was simplified in the past as, no child left behind. Another policy paved with good intentions that have led to hell.

8

DefinitelyNotAliens t1_jddbz6i wrote

Curious, why doesn't Denver schools have an alternative school in-district?

My much smaller school district had an alternative school so they didn't expell them, they just moved to self-paced alternative schools. They can go there to continuation high schools voluntarily or the day schools non-voluntarily. We have both. Day schools are for behavioral and attendance issues.

One of our continuation schools has a full preschool program for free for students and takes babies 6+ weeks, so kids can finish their high school at an accelerated pace or catch up and get daycare. Have a diploma, not a GED. Totally free. They even hold parenting classes. If you enroll your child there one class per day is in there learning parenting skills.

They also have a at-risk student school for habitually truant/ violent students who didn't or won't divert into continuation schools and an online school platform for kids who are sick or dealing with other issues and can't attend on campus. You can also get shoved there pending explusion and movement into alternative programs.

Like, why wouldn't Denver have alternative programs? It costs the district here, not their original school. The state gives extra funding for it, even.

My city is smaller than Denver, too.

18

DTFH_ t1_jddcpy0 wrote

They very well could have alternative schools but that does not mean if alternative schools have the resources to students, and what I have seen is that many alternative schools could be 8 to 10 times the cost, meaning the district would have to cover that student at that price with parental approval for the student to be transferred. So if the parent has been involved and been a roadblock every which way the school can't do anything besides keep them in district.

13

DefinitelyNotAliens t1_jddl2xx wrote

We have two versions, the 'parent/ student agree' version which is usually like some truancy, minor behavioral or just... traditional school didn't work version. We also have the "you're at this school now, don't end up in prison" version. They're two separate campuses.

The "you're a danger" version is not in any way, shape or form a parental choice. You will go there. The regular school is no longer an option.

6

DTFH_ t1_jddpepv wrote

The latter requires an educational lawyer to act on behalf of the school, which the school will again avoid at all costs especially if the parent or guardian is not on board and/or is actively being a roadblock to proper placement which is not uncommon. You will go there pending proper paperwork.

2

BestCatEva t1_jde08n8 wrote

I’ll wager you’re not in the US Southeast. I remember this ‘up North’ but nothing like this exists in many, many states.

4

ComprehensiveAdmin t1_jdd1t0q wrote

It has absolutely nothing to do with funding.

7

DTFH_ t1_jdd4ksg wrote

Sure what's your analysis? I understand it as relating to NCLB in that students are entitled to an education or being provided an alternative at the schools expense.

6

ComprehensiveAdmin t1_jdd4u9f wrote

It’s the expulsion process itself, and the look for districts when they expel students.

5

DTFH_ t1_jdd5mg6 wrote

How do you think somehow schools districts all across this county came to the same conclusion regarding expulsion, if expulsion is not related to funding as per NCLB's requirements?

6

Faptain__Marvel t1_jddxpl3 wrote

Then there is the race thing. Predominately white school districts booting predominately young black men always causes problems.

2

jereman75 t1_jdd8a31 wrote

Everything has to do with funding.

2

ComprehensiveAdmin t1_jddd987 wrote

I tend to agree with you on this in about every situation, but not this one. I would be curious if this student was on an IEP. That is typically the primary reason students with extreme behaviors are not expelled. Trust me when I tell you that a few thousand dollars in funding for one kid isn’t going to be the deciding factor in whether to expel or not.

9

robexib t1_jddf68v wrote

Eh, depends.

I was damned near expelled after a series of terrorist threat allegations that were proven in a courtroom later to be falsified as a means to have me expelled. The reason for the accusations?

I was attempting to talk to a guidance counselor. Seriously.

4

SOUTHPAWMIKE t1_jdemv14 wrote

Jesus. You can't just drop a bomb like that in here without any follow up. I'd love to know more, but obviously please don't talk about anything you aren't comfortable with.

5

robexib t1_jdesk9s wrote

So, in my school district, the administration were seemingly on the cut when it came to admitting students as special education students, whether they needed it or not. Apparently, a chunk of that funding was lost if any of those students were to transition out of special education for any reason.

I wanted out. My parents wanted me out. The guidance counselor's office were aware of my situation, but couldn't do much. The only folks who had any issue were in the administration, and were either principals or vice principals. I needed their permission to take standard education classes, which would be invariably denied. No reason given. This is in direct violation of IDEA, BTW.

So, I'd go behind their backs and try to talk to counselors regardless. It'd take maybe a day before the pricipal found out, bring me into his office, pull some bullshit allegation about I'd threaten to blow up the gym or shoot up a classroom and use that as the reason to suspend me, and have my changes to my schedule and IEP reverted.

The superintendent was fully aware this was happening and did nothing. I don't have evidence for it, but I suspect he was on the take.

This is why I'm generally against increasing funding for schools. Far too many administrators take far too much for their own personal gain, and teachers, students, and other actually useful staff get very little of that money.

4

SOUTHPAWMIKE t1_jdeu4ct wrote

That's fucking horrendous, but not surprising. I know for a fact that districts get more funding per Sped student, and yeah, many of the admins I worked with also tried to push kids onto IEPs for those extra dollars.

You said the charges got thrown out in court, and I'm glad they did. Did anyone who put you in this situation ever face consequences?

1

robexib t1_jdf6sv4 wrote

Principal got slapped with a restraining order. About it.

4

Lesmiserablemuffins t1_jdfxz78 wrote

Any extra money for SPED is used to... fund sped lol. Special education is not cheap and schools really do not get enough funds to run these programs at a minimal quality, much less somehow siphon that money into other things

3

SOUTHPAWMIKE t1_jdfzllv wrote

I'm not implying that anything was being used or spent inappropriately where I worked, but I'm also not trying to call u/robexib a liar. I was also always told that we get special state funding for our SPED Program, (which I was involved in occasionally spending to address SPED needs) but also general use ADA funding, and we got more per child w/ special needs.

But I was in IT, not SPED or Finance, so I don't really know.

1

robexib t1_jdgb4hq wrote

Right, it's generally the case that the schools that comply with ADA and IDEA are supposed to get extra funding in order to assist students who have special needs, like access to speech pathologists or medical professionals with training in the issues faced by a student. It's also, in part, meant to give teachers a financial incentive to take on special education students.

The extra funding isn't the issue by itself. It's the fact that schools make it far too easy to skim off the top and get away with it without involving a courtroom.

2

just-why_ t1_jdeghmt wrote

No child left behind was so poorly implemented and funded that the US ditched it, and rightfully so.

I went to school during that. It was a disaster.

The schools didn't get proper funding or backing to pull it off properly.

3